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Question: FF or HP?
FF   -17 (34%)
HP   -33 (66%)
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Total Voters: 50

Author Topic: Opinion of Angela Merkel  (Read 2085 times)
Phony Moderate
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« on: December 09, 2011, 06:53:17 pm »
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She has, of course, been in the news a lot recently, so....
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Franzl
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2011, 06:57:10 pm »
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Neither. She isn't an HP, I think she's competent and means well enough....but she's disappointed me too often to be called FF either.

Voted HP because I don't approve of the current federal government.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 07:19:48 pm »
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Mostly FF.
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7.35, 3.65

« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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Old Europe
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 07:34:43 pm »
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HP

Opportunist who's mainly interested in staying Chancellor and who's reversing her political positions as it suits her needs.

So, basically the German version of Mitt Romney, albeit with less sex appeal. Tongue
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 07:37:19 pm by Old Europe »Logged
Snowstalker
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 10:11:21 pm »
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inb4 SPD landslide
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Antonio V
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2011, 06:13:37 am »
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HP. Stubborn idiot who's putting the entire Europe (his own country comprised) in danger just to please her public opinion.

The true responsible for the Euro debt crisis.
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HashCAN     americans saw the EP elections and people cringing at Europeans being morons and electing Nazis; so they massively said "NO" and decided to prove that they're still bigger morons



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Franzl
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2011, 06:16:19 am »
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HP. Stubborn idiot who's putting the entire Europe (his own country comprised) in danger just to please her public opinion.

The true responsible for the Euro debt crisis.

Yeah. Obviously not the countries in massive debt and little interest in cleaning up. That'd be too easy!
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ZuWo
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2011, 06:21:38 am »
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The German version of Mitt Romney. What are her convictions? What does she stand for?
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2011, 06:43:59 am »
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Berlusconi had it right
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Antonio V
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2011, 06:48:36 am »
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HP. Stubborn idiot who's putting the entire Europe (his own country comprised) in danger just to please her public opinion.

The true responsible for the Euro debt crisis.

Yeah. Obviously not the countries in massive debt and little interest in cleaning up. That'd be too easy!

Massive debt ? The only country which qualifies as "massively indebted" is Greece, all the others managed to pay off their debts without problems before the crisis started. So yeah, Grece's debt was the spark which caused the explosion. BTW, I'd like to remind you that "a country" isn't collectively responsible for its debt. The government is, and, in this case, Caramanlis' right-wing government.

Anyways, the crisis didn't become what it is now because of Greece. It has become what it is because of the governments' poor reaction to the Greek crisis. It would have been sufficient to establish Euro-bonds, with the possibility for countries to effectively collectivize Greece's debt, and the crisis would have been solved from the beginning. You just can't have a common money and not have financial solidarity among countries, it just can't work. Of course, once they saw the pathetic half-assed measures Merkozy have put forward, the markets realized that after all, all the EU countries were at risk. Of course : they were left to their own devices regarding debt, but couldn't use monetary tools to fight against it because the Euro was managed by the ECB ! So they began speculating against Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy... France is the next on the list, and, in the end, Germany's turn will come too. The result is what we have now : the whole Eurozone is in danger.

Let's also talk about the way Merkel&co shoved austerity plans through these countries' throat. Is there in the world a more mind-numbingly retarded measure to fight against deficits ? Those countries are dismantling their whole welfare states, leading to mass poverty. We're turning them into third-world countries to "punish" them for their deficits ! You might not care about people dying from starvation and these kind of things, but do I have to remind you that poverty means recession ? And that recession means less tax revenues, and thus, more deficit ? Yeah, that's it : austerity plans are just the way to raise deficits. What will we do once deficits will have risen ? New austerity plans ! Austerity ! Austerity ! Austerity ! Until the countries will be reduced to the stone age. After all, that's just the eventual goal of all neoliberals, isn't it ?

So yeah, sorry if I don't buy into the moronic idea that "evil southern countries deserve it because they are BAD". I'm just sad you fall so easily into such a ridiculous view, and I'm sure you genuinely think so. After all, you're not the only one : the neoliberal dogma has dominated Europe for over 30 years now. But I'm fairly confident that the pack of lies, caricatures, populism and primary insticts it carries will be eventually exposed for what it is.
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HashCAN     americans saw the EP elections and people cringing at Europeans being morons and electing Nazis; so they massively said "NO" and decided to prove that they're still bigger morons



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2011, 06:58:12 am »
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So let's just stop the whole Euro thing and let every country fend for themselves. It's unfortunate that this project was started at all.

Either that, or actually put Germans or Austrians in charge of finances. Wink
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2011, 07:04:53 am »
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So let's just stop the whole Euro thing and let every country fend for themselves. It's unfortunate that this project was started at all.

Either that, or actually put Germans or Austrians in charge of finances. Wink

And a few Dutch, Luxembourg and Finnish people as well. Otherwise we are seen as Nazis ...
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2011, 07:06:16 am »
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So let's just stop the whole Euro thing and let every country fend for themselves. It's unfortunate that this project was started at all.

Either that, or actually put Germans or Austrians in charge of finances. Wink

And a few Dutch, Luxembourg and Finnish people as well. Otherwise we are seen as Nazis ...

Oh yes. Quite right.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2011, 07:13:54 am »
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So let's just stop the whole Euro thing and let every country fend for themselves. It's unfortunate that this project was started at all.

Germany has been one of the main beneficiaries of the common money, though.


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Either that, or actually put Germans or Austrians in charge of finances. Wink

No, put an European government elected by all Europeans. This is the only fair and sound way for Europe to remain a world power and not fall into utter irrelevancy.
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HashCAN     americans saw the EP elections and people cringing at Europeans being morons and electing Nazis; so they massively said "NO" and decided to prove that they're still bigger morons



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

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Franzl
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2011, 07:32:54 am »
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Germany has been one of the main beneficiaries of the common money, though.

To an extent. The Euro, more accurately, has turned the Eurozone into a place of fair competition. At the same time, it's clear that Germany has won the competition, being the most efficient and producing the highest quality.

That said, yes, in practice, the Euro has helped Germany's exports by making them relatively cheaper. But anyone who signed onto the Euro had to accept that they were entering this competition. That includes Greece and Italy, wouldn't you agree?

And apparently these countries are not capable of competing with Germany, Austria and the Netherlands. The Euro isn't in the interest of the entire Euro zone. Perhaps stopping this whole nonsense would be best?

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No, put an European government elected by all Europeans. This is the only fair and sound way for Europe to remain a world power and not fall into utter irrelevancy.

This is where I draw the line. I'm not a "European citizen". Considering that Germany is the one giving everyone else all the money, I will only accept German terms. If that's unacceptable to others, then that's fine as well. But I will never allow our sovereignty to be taken over by people less responsible than we. Smiley
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Antonio V
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2011, 07:44:50 am »
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Germany has been one of the main beneficiaries of the common money, though.

To an extent. The Euro, more accurately, has turned the Eurozone into a place of fair competition. At the same time, it's clear that Germany has won the competition, being the most efficient and producing the highest quality.

That said, yes, in practice, the Euro has helped Germany's exports by making them relatively cheaper. But anyone who signed onto the Euro had to accept that they were entering this competition. That includes Greece and Italy, wouldn't you agree?

And apparently these countries are not capable of competing with Germany, Austria and the Netherlands. The Euro isn't in the interest of the entire Euro zone. Perhaps stopping this whole nonsense would be best?

Quote
No, put an European government elected by all Europeans. This is the only fair and sound way for Europe to remain a world power and not fall into utter irrelevancy.

This is where I draw the line. I'm not a "European citizen". Considering that Germany is the one giving everyone else all the money, I will only accept German terms. If that's unacceptable to others, then that's fine as well. But I will never allow our sovereignty to be taken over by people less responsible than we. Smiley


That is exactly the point. The Euro was intended to favor the competitivity of the whole Europe in the global economy, not to ensure competition within the zone. The fact national egoism has prevailed over feelings of solidarity is not only unfortunate. It will eventually hurt everybody, Germany comprised. By 2050, a country representing less than 1% of the world population, with horrible demographics an an irrelevant money will be utterly screwed. European federalism is not only an opportunity to develop democracy and develop feelings of community, it's also the only way to survive in the world economy.
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HashCAN     americans saw the EP elections and people cringing at Europeans being morons and electing Nazis; so they massively said "NO" and decided to prove that they're still bigger morons



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
Franzl
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2011, 07:49:53 am »
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I suppose we've come to a point where there are just principal disagreements. I'm not concerned with the individual competitivity of strong European nations.

But then I suppose there's a reason you wouldn't give me a foreign affairs or economic role in your fantasy government Wink
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Antonio V
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2011, 07:53:51 am »
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I suppose we've come to a point where there are just principal disagreements. I'm not concerned with the individual competitivity of strong European nations.

But then I suppose there's a reason you wouldn't give me a foreign affairs or economic role in your fantasy government Wink

Indeed. Let's take back this discussion 30 or 40 years from today and see which of us was right. Wink
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HashCAN     americans saw the EP elections and people cringing at Europeans being morons and electing Nazis; so they massively said "NO" and decided to prove that they're still bigger morons



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
You kip if you want to...
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 07:25:06 pm »
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BUMP, due to the news cycle and I didn't wanna start a new one.

HP, human filth.
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2012, 07:38:12 pm »
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No change since December, and I wish her the best of political luck.
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7.35, 3.65

« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
R2D2
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2012, 07:50:28 pm »
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FF.

-hides-
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 07:56:45 pm »
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Apart from her impressive cleavage -HP.  The euro crisis pretty much sealed my opinion of her leadership. 
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LastVoter
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2012, 09:53:45 pm »
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Terrible. EU should at least have equalization payments like provinces of Canada do if they want to continue of having Germany selling sh**t to southern  countries.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2012, 10:46:07 pm »
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Truly awful.
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LiberalJunkie
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2012, 10:47:04 pm »
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Just.....No. HP
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