Should German count as only one language?

[memphis]

From my limited experience, no. Every language has its dialects sure, but what they speak in Switzerland is a whole different thing from how one speaks in Berlin. Plenty of German experts around. Fill me in.

[memphis]

Every language has its dialects sure, but what they speak in Switzerland is a whole different thing from how one speaks in Berlin.

You clearly don't know about Italian dialects.

At least Italians get recognized for their seperate languages on their wikipedia articles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinian_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friulan_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligurian_(Romance_language)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmontese_language
German merely gets attention to the fact that there are "dialects." Even with my limited knowledge of German, I'm calling bs on that.

[memphis]

Well, it's nothing if compared to Arabic.

While we're playing that game, we may as well point out Chinese.

[memphis]

Gus, while you're here I may as well turn the table on you. I've heard the argument that Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish should be classified as one Scandinavian language. Fair or no? And I don't buy the requisite literary precedent argument for the defintion of a language. Most languages in the world have little to no extant literature.

[memphis]

While we're complaining about airport distances, London's Stansted is quite a distance out as well.

[memphis]

While we're complaining about airport distances, London's Stansted is quite a distance out as well.

Stansted is on the far outer edge of the contiguous London metro, the only place a major airport has any business whatsoever being.

New York has two major airports in the city limits. Plenty of other major airports are in or near the center city. Voldemort National Airport in DC. Logan Airport in Boston. We have the busiest cargo airport in the country (was in the world until Hong Kong passed us couple of years back) in my hometown. Why would you want an airport to be inconvenient?

[memphis]

I find a major airport in the middle of a city pretty damn inconvenient, thank you very much.

Inconvenient for what? Getting to the countryside?

[memphis]

Oh, quality of life, city planning, property values, the works.

When I visited Berlin, I flew into Tegel. It was in the city. I stayed in a hostel that wasn't far away. And it was fine. I didn't see any quality of life issues caused by the airport. The same is true for many of the American airports I mentioned previously. While the Memphis airport is not in a nice part of town, I don't think the airport is to blame. It brings countless jobs to people who very much need them. Plus, middle class people are moving as fast as they can to the area just south of it, which is by far the fastest growing part of our metro. I don't see what the fuss is all about.

[memphis]

I am heartened by the fact that not only are our European posters not ashamed to admit that they have a dialect but openly boast about theirs and discuss it publically.  I wonder if dialect-shame is a concept unique to the US

I wonder if teaching kids that how they speak at home is "wrong" is a concept unique to the US...

[memphis]

I am heartened by the fact that not only are our European posters not ashamed to admit that they have a dialect but openly boast about theirs and discuss it publically.  I wonder if dialect-shame is a concept unique to the US

I wonder if teaching kids that how they speak at home is "wrong" is a concept unique to the US...

God, no.

So, I don't know the first thing about German schools. Please elaborate. I would sincerely like to know how things work over there. In America, we are taught in school to write "correctly." There is no mention of dialects or anything other than "right" or "wrong." And I get why having a standard is useful and necessary but I think "standard" and "non-standard" would be fairer and less judgemental. In  my hometown, most blacks grow up with their dialect, which really isn't that different than the standard, but is highly stigmatized. And he is told everyday how he speaks is wrong and that how the white people typically speaks is right. Of course he isn't told that directly, but it's very well understood. What happens with the kid in Bavaria?

[memphis]

Linguistic imperialism is a common thing, of course, and it takes many forms. I can't say more than a couple words in my ancestral language, although my dad speaks it fluently.

I'm gonna go out on a limb as say it's because you grew up in the United States and he didn't...

[memphis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not

A bit extreme as an example, as that's not even an issue of dialects. But even in England (and other English speaking areas) the idea that there is a correct form of English and that dialects were corruptions of something pure was a major part of the education system until quite recently. It's not uncommon to find people (usually over fifty) who switch their accents and grammar when talking to someone in a formal setting. And, obviously, it hasn't totally disappeared.

Wow. That's crazy. Didn't know about that. But I remember something vaguely similar from my high school French class about how the French government used to ban the Breton language in schools or something like that. The various American dialects are all pretty similar though. Nothing like in the UK and certainly not like in Germany. Maybe it's easier to hold the standard up as golden when everybody is so close to begin with.

[memphis]

Linguistic imperialism is a common thing, of course, and it takes many forms. I can't say more than a couple words in my ancestral language, although my dad speaks it fluently.

I'm gonna go out on a limb as say it's because you grew up in the United States and he didn't...

I don't think even my cousins in Dhaka speak Sylheti.

Why would they? They live in Dhaka, not Sylhet.

[memphis]

Eh, I would say American dialects are further apart than you'd think.  And the pace of regionalization is increasing.

Really? I've been to nearly every state in the Union. Everybody speaks more or less the same. You may have a Great Lake Vowel Shift here and a country twang there, but it's nothing like Newcastle versus Cornwall.