Should German count as only one language?

[ZuWo]

Linguistically speaking, there are good reasons to regard German varieties like Swiss German and other varieties spoken in the German-speaking world as separate languages. Luxemburgish, for example, is considered a language in its own right even though it shares many similarities with dialects spoken in the west of Germany. A person from Berlin certainly doesn't understand a lot when he hears a Swiss speaker for the first time.

The answer to the question whether a certain variety is a language or a dialect is often political. Luxemburg, for instance, decided to grant its dialects the status of an official language. In Switzerland, however, there is a stable diglossic situation; High German is used in closely defined domains (e.g. education, certain television programs, Parliament), while Swiss German is used by nearly everyone in the German-speaking part in everyday life. The official language here is High German.

So, to cut a long story short: It's difficult to answer this question in a straightforward way. You can say "German" is only one language - that would be a political definition - or you can count clearly distinct varieties as separate languages.

[ZuWo]

So let's compare different German dialects with concrete examples. I made up the following Standard High German sentence and would like to have it translated into different German varieties. Maybe some other German-speaking users will help me and write how the sentence sounds in their dialect. The sentence just serves the purpose of comparing some varieties - don't look too much at the content.

The English translation of the following sentence is something like "I'm staying at home today because I got sick yesterday."

Standard High German: Ich bleibe heute zu Hause, weil ich gestern krank wurde.
Swiss German: Ich blib hüt dihei, wil ich geschter chrank worde bi.

[ZuWo]

Fellow German posters, try to translate these 2 dialect-sentences into Standard-German:

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I'll give you one tip:

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This is a brutal example of why our dialect could be its own language ...

... no chance. I only get "Vorgestern (?) am ... haben wir, weil wir ... waren, nach dem/den ... mein ... auf beiden (?) Seiten grün gefärbt (?)" - maybe.

[ZuWo]

And now in English:

"Two years ago on Christmas Day, out of boredom, after taking a shower I quickly colored my armpit hair on both sides green. Let's see how this works out with the ladies."

Häsch das würkli gmacht?

(Have you really done that?)

[ZuWo]

I am heartened by the fact that not only are our European posters not ashamed to admit that they have a dialect but openly boast about theirs and discuss it publically.  I wonder if dialect-shame is a concept unique to the US

I wonder if teaching kids that how they speak at home is "wrong" is a concept unique to the US...

God, no.

So, I don't know the first thing about German schools. Please elaborate. I would sincerely like to know how things work over there. In America, we are taught in school to write "correctly." There is no mention of dialects or anything other than "right" or "wrong." And I get why having a standard is useful and necessary but I think "standard" and "non-standard" would be fairer and less judgemental. In  my hometown, most blacks grow up with their dialect, which really isn't that different than the standard, but is highly stigmatized. And he is told everyday how he speaks is wrong and that how the white people typically speaks is right. Of course he isn't told that directly, but it's very well understood. What happens with the kid in Bavaria?

I can't tell you much about Germany, but at least something about Switzerland. In our country there is an elegant solution; Standard German is what children are supposed to talk and write at school, while every native Swiss-German person speaks a dialect at home (diglossia). The usage of dialects is very natural and an important part of the Swiss-German identity, that's why the notion of dialects as "wrong speech" is not known at all here. On the contrary, dialects are valued highly, and the wealth of different dialects is considered an asset and a reason of pride by most.

[ZuWo]

It's not school that did them in - school used to try for ages but failed. It's tv and the transportation revolution.

It's actually almost certainly not TV; every study trying to link TV to language change (e.g., one looking at the influence of EastEnders on Glaswegian English) has found only very sparse evidence that mass media contributes anything. (Again, the US is a good counterexample: regional changes are accelerating despite the strong media here.)  Changes in transportation and mobility are definitely the key.

Funny that you mention this - in a recent guest lecture by linguist David Britain at my university this study has been mentioned as well. He drew the same conclusions as you do. (The general lecture course had a focus on "Principles of Language Change" and the guest lecture in question had the title "The Spatial Diffusion of Linguistic Innovations").

[ZuWo]

Why not?

Waste of money that could have been spent on worthwhile projects. Even in the same subject area. The answer was obviously going to be 'no', and the sort of 'no' that would not exactly elucidate...

That's easy to say in hindsight, and I disagree. Indeed, I think the hypothesis that the mass media and, for example, popular television programs have a considerable impact on language is quite plausible. The fact that this study shows that there is probably no such influence in the case of EastEnders suggests that this hypothesis may have to be rejected - even though one has to keep in mind that more research has to be done, of course.