Should there be a revote?

[Nym90]

With the butterfly ballot and all, I'd say Florida 2000 would have made more sense then Washington 2004, but I voted no on both.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes for both and No for both... I think what we do for extremely close races over here (have a recount and if the result is still in dispute declare it annulled and hold a by-election) would have worked had it all been done in the first week.
But calling for a re-vote months after the initial election because you are losing after a second recount, and having called on you're opponent to concede after an earlier count when you'd led by a smaller margin than you're opponant, is extremely hypocrital.

[minionofmidas]

Have to agree with Al there.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Yes for both and No for both... I think what we do for extremely close races over here (have a recount and if the result is still in dispute declare it annulled and hold a by-election) would have worked had it all been done in the first week.
But calling for a re-vote months after the initial election because you are losing after a second recount, and having called on you're opponent to concede after an earlier count when you'd led by a smaller margin than you're opponant, is extremely hypocrital.

Interesting.

North Carolina is having a revote (Agriculture Commissioner) because of possible voting errors in one county.

Washington is unlikely to hold a revote despite what to be charitable are massive, repeated errors in one county, and which I personally (and many others familiar with the situation believe) is simple, deliberate and willfrul fraud in one county.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Both no.  The whole idea is absurd.

In every election, somebody must win and somebody must lose.  In an especially close election such as this one, it's difficult to stand on any kind of moral high ground and start judging voters intentions and what-not.  There could have been 50 people who had car trouble on their way to vote for Rossi.  Maybe some future Gregoire voters were aborted in their mother's womb. 

I've ran a voting station before and that experience made me realize just how precarious our voting system is.  There are plenty of voters who have severe mental handicaps but that are brought in by relatives or friends to vote.  A Democrat and I had to help one voter who was probaly 99 years old and completely out of his mind and was just randomly hitting his finger at the touch screen.  I have to give him credit though - I'd consider him more informed than the lady who came in and asked if there was a button that she could press to vote all Democrat so she wouldn't have to bother reading the candidates names.

To sit here and quibble over 100 votes in an election where millions are cast is futile.  It's difficult to talk about an irregularity here or there when in fact the entire system is an irregularity. 

Rossi is down for the count.  It pains me to say it, but he has no other honorable choice than to concede and live to fight another day.

With the butterfly ballot and all, I'd say Florida 2000 would have made more sense then Washington 2004, but I voted no on both.

Um... you Dems created the butterfly ballot.  It's not our fault that Democrats are too dumb to follow instructions.

[minionofmidas]

Yeah, that bit about the 99 year old reminds me of why I'm in favor of paper ballots.
As to the butterfly ballot, that's actually something of a misconception. It was pushed through by Ms. LePore (originally elected as a Republican, reelected as a Democrat) and her Republican colleague against their Democratic colleague.

[opebo]

No in Washington - governorships don't matter that much.

As for 2000, Clinton should've remained in office untill Florida could re-vote.  Heck I wish he were still president now!

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

How would having a paper ballot change anything?  (Other than allow magic Democrat votes to be "found" in a box somewhere)

I STRONGLY support electronic voting.  We've used it in Memphis for 20 years and have never had any problems.

Yeah, that bit about the 99 year old reminds me of why I'm in favor of paper ballots.
As to the butterfly ballot, that's actually something of a misconception. It was pushed through by Ms. LePore (originally elected as a Republican, reelected as a Democrat) and her Republican colleague against their Democratic colleague.

[minionofmidas]

How would having a paper ballot change anything?  (Other than allow magic Democrat votes to be "found" in a box somewhere)

I STRONGLY support electronic voting.  We've used it in Memphis for 20 years and have never had any problems.

Yeah, that bit about the 99 year old reminds me of why I'm in favor of paper ballots.

If he's indeed totally out of his mind, he'd still do some random thing with the ballot paper. In that case, he has no business having his vote coutned anyways.
If he's just very feeble and somewhat confused, though, a touchscreen creates both a large danger of an overvote and of a false positive for some other candidate. A punchcard ballot creates, almost certainly, a dented chad. On a  paper ballot, though, he'll still be able to leave a clear if slightly feeble mark.

[WalterMitty]

a note on the north carolina sec of agriculture race...  the republican candidate is up by a little over 2,000 votes, if i remember correctly.  there was an issue of 4,000 early voting ballots being lost in carteret county.   that county voted 60-40 for the republican candidate.  so, logically, of course, those lost ballots probably wont influence the election much.

however, it was orginially planned to let those voters who early voted at that particular precinct PLUS carteret county voters who didnt vote at all on nov 2, have a revote in january.  the democrats, knowing they would fail, whine and bellyached until they got the partisan board of elections to authorize a state revote, which will cost around $3 million and probably have a turnout of about 10-20%.

the democrats are getting pretty good at stealing elections.

[Alcon]

No/no. It would turn into more of a circus.

[J. J.]

No/No.

There is no reason for a revote.  No one has produced any real evidence of fraud in either case.

[2952-0-0]

Um... you Dems created the butterfly ballot.  It's not our fault that Democrats are too dumb to follow instructions.

For the sake of accuracy, the woman whoh created the butterfly ballot was a Rep until 1996, when she changed to Democrat, and then in 2001 she changed into independent. Funny, eh?

[Nym90]

Both no. The whole idea is absurd.

In every election, somebody must win and somebody must lose. In an especially close election such as this one, it's difficult to stand on any kind of moral high ground and start judging voters intentions and what-not. There could have been 50 people who had car trouble on their way to vote for Rossi. Maybe some future Gregoire voters were aborted in their mother's womb.

I've ran a voting station before and that experience made me realize just how precarious our voting system is. There are plenty of voters who have severe mental handicaps but that are brought in by relatives or friends to vote. A Democrat and I had to help one voter who was probaly 99 years old and completely out of his mind and was just randomly hitting his finger at the touch screen. I have to give him credit though - I'd consider him more informed than the lady who came in and asked if there was a button that she could press to vote all Democrat so she wouldn't have to bother reading the candidates names.

To sit here and quibble over 100 votes in an election where millions are cast is futile. It's difficult to talk about an irregularity here or there when in fact the entire system is an irregularity.

Rossi is down for the count. It pains me to say it, but he has no other honorable choice than to concede and live to fight another day.

With the butterfly ballot and all, I'd say Florida 2000 would have made more sense then Washington 2004, but I voted no on both.

Um... you Dems created the butterfly ballot. It's not our fault that Democrats are too dumb to follow instructions.

I know, that doesn't make it any less absurd, however.

And I didn't create it. Just because it was created by a Democrat, it's not fair to lump me in with them.

Notice I still said there shouldn't be a revote, just that having one would have been not as bad as having one in Washington.

[CARLHAYDEN]

No/No.

There is no reason for a revote.  No one has produced any real evidence of fraud in either case.

Uh, there is an attempt to investigate vote fraud in King county, but the public documents are being withheld by King county, with the excuse that they will be made available with 'all deliberate speed,' i.e. after the date set by law for a challenge to the results has come and gone.

Even if the stonewall is sucessful in that it results in the installation of Gregoire, I would like a thorough investigation.

I wonder if the rosters will be 'lost' and never 'found' by Logan and associates?

[Lunar]

No on both.

What's the point of democracy if there are revotes whenever the election is close.

[J. J.]

I'm going to point out that, in the case of Florida, the Constitution requires a uniform election day.  The question isn't should there be a revote in Florida, but should there be a revote in the United States.

[Hatman 🍁]

Well, if there is a re-vote in Ukraine, why not in the US?  I said yes for both, even though in theory you shouldn't need to, but elections in the US are not perfect, and until they are there should be an option of a re-vote. I think there was possible voter fraud created by the GOP in Florida and the DNC in Washington.

[A18]

Well, if there is a re-vote in Ukraine, why not in the US?

Evidence of fraud. As in, real evidence. Losing an election is not evidence of fraud.

[PBrunsel]

No on both.

We should, and we may shiver, take a note from Richard Nixon in 1960.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Some more information on the shennigans in the King county vote 'counting' farce:


From Stefan Sharkasky

My promised scoop that I broke on the Dori Monson Show: I found a specific case of ballotless voters. Three precincts that share a polling place in Issaquah [2602, 3464 and "Gilman"] where the total number of voting voters noticeably exceeds the number of ballots counted. Unlike some of the similar discrepancies I found with polling place ballots, this one can't be explained by adjusting with other precincts from the same polling location.

The only possible explanations that I can imagine: (1) A number of voters were erroneously recorded as having voted when they didn't vote. (2) ballots disappeared and weren't counted. (3) ballots were mixed up in the counting center and placed with other precincts. (4) The ballot counts are bogus. I suspect we'll never know the answer.

Either way, this is just another sign that we're facing an irreparable mess and the only solution is to throw out the election and have a revote.

[J. J.]

Possibilty number 4; they abstained.

What type of ballots are being used?

[Will F.D. People]

Possibilty number 4; they abstained.

What type of ballots are being used?

One thing that the abstention theory does not account for is why in King County there are 1782 more votes in the tally than there are people who voted.

For the case in favor of a recount:

http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/cat_2004_governors_race.html

Also:

http://www.revotewa.com/index.htm

Even if you are willing to excuse the numbers simply not adding up, there is the case of the military ballots where the ballots did not reach the servicemen and women in time and they were only allowed to vote for President and no other race. I call on Democrats everywhere to join me in protesting this blatant disenfranchisement of a segment of the population.

[bgwah]

Out of five counties who have yet to "explain themselves" for their extra votes, only one (King) voted for Gregoire.

[J. J.]

I'd need something really solid before calling for revoting.  So far I'm seeing a whole lot of nothing.

It's a close election, but so what, that doesn't mean fraud.