Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 17, 2014, 12:32:51 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  International Elections (Moderator: PASOK Leader Hashemite)
| | |-+  Greece 2012
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 ... 47 Print
Author Topic: Greece 2012  (Read 58642 times)
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #175 on: April 28, 2012, 04:20:53 am »
Ignore

PASOK did introduce a fully proportional system in the late 80s. That led to three elections in a year and to the abandonment of the idea by the Greek political ruling class.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Landslide Lyndon
px75
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9156
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -2.58, S: -5.22

View Profile
« Reply #176 on: April 28, 2012, 04:24:47 am »
Ignore

PASOK did introduce a fully proportional system in the late 80s. That led to three elections in a year and to the abandonment of the idea by the Greek political ruling class.

They did it after the Koskotas scandal erupted, to prevent ND from getting a majority in the parliament. They never really believed the idea of coalition governments and certainly the way the left behaved that period did nothing to prove them wrong.
Logged

Bob Findley: "You're a real dyed-in-the-wool son-of-a-bitch. Anyone ever told you that?"
Steve Everett: "Just close friends and family,"

Clint Eastwood's "True Crime", 1999.
Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 34075
Austria


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -6.09

View Profile
« Reply #177 on: April 28, 2012, 09:09:42 am »
Ignore

Here's the standard.at article about XA translated to English with Google Translate:

Quote
Fascists day dawning

Report | 28 April 2012, 14:27

"Golden Dawn" is the party of fascists in the elections on 6 May is probably the first time in parliament

Panteleimon was a healer, but in his neighborhood now festers Athens worst wound. Blue swastikas all over the house walls, Greek flags, planted defiantly on balconies, especially the "Hellas" lettering on the asphalt road mark the terrain of neo-fascists. "Greece of the Greeks" is in blue, and four feet tall on the forecourt of the church - to understand it, the immigrants from Bangladesh and North Africa alike. Agios Panteleimon, a run-down neighborhood north of the Athens Central Railway Station, has taken root Chrysi Avgi, the party of the "Golden Dawn". Now it is to jump on in Parliament.

All the polls say the collection of the fascists in the elections on 6 May require. It could be 17 seats, maybe more. "The support for us is much higher than the five or six percent in the polls," says Ilias Kasiliaris on the phone, number two of the party and nephew of Nikolaos Michaloliakos, the party founder. Kasiliaris has no time for a meeting with journalists, let alone foreign ones, which do not bring votes. "The Greeks choose us because we are the only party that is telling the truth," he explains and hangs up.

The "truth" is on small stickers on front doors and lamp posts in Saint Panteleimon: "I choose Chrysi Avgi, so that Greece will be cleaned." And on building walls, sprayed on by the anarchists and fascists renewed. Slogans such as "working for Greek workers" or "Throw the Koran into the fire." A mosque in a basement near the Attiki Square Pendant by Chrysi Avgi stuck in the past year on fire.

The election campaign of the ruling Socialists and conservatives have joined the campaign against the foreigners already bowed to pressure from big is the fascists and right-wing parties such as the Orthodox People's Assembly (Laos) and the Greeks became independent.

"We need to reclaim our cities," said Antonis Samaras, the head of the conservative New Democracy party and possible next prime minister. As a "hygiene bomb that is about to explode" means the Minister of Public Order, Michalis Chryssohoidis of PASOK politicians, illegal immigrants. He makes the Greeks supposedly infectious diseases of Africans and Asians fear. 1.1 million immigrants will be available in Greece, 400,000 are undocumented. After years of long waiting, the government announced the construction of 30 detention camps for illegal immigrants. The first will open next week north of Athens.

Has 5.3 percent receive Chrysi Avgi in Athens in the local elections in late 2010, the first elections after the outbreak of financial crisis and the drastic austerity measures. Nine percent were at Agios Panteleimon and in some polling stations of the district as much as 20 percent.

The three-percent threshold for the Parliament to take the fascists now with ease. State bankruptcy and immigration problems have made them strong. "They have managed to expel the immigrants of the squares in the center of Athens," says the historian Antonis Liakos. "The fascists have started businesses to protect the Greeks, 'and to build strong organizations in schools. You are their reservoir," says the professor of history at the University of Athens. Not their Nazi ideology Chrysi Avgi was popularized, but the foreigner issue. "People no longer feel protected by the state."

Night patrols

At night patrol commands of party supporters through the neighborhood, during the day, young men in track suits with push their dogs around on street corners. The police tolerate the intimidating presence of the fascists. Petros Constantinou, a radical leftist politicians from Agios Panteleimon, goes further: "In Greece, the police have always collaborated with the fascists."

Constantinou is the counterpart of Michaloliakos, the head of Chrysi Avgi. Both were elected in 2010 as a member of the Athens City Council. In January 2011 it came to a head. Because Michaloliakos came to the meetings with a group dressed in black and allegedly armed party members, Constantinou protested loudly. The following tumult was Michaloliakos (55), right-wing extremist convicted on the retreat. In parting, he got twice the Hitler salute. (Markus Bernath from Athens, THE STANDARD, 04.28.2012)

http://derstandard.at/1334796449707/Griechenland-Faschisten-wittern-Morgenluft

Disturbing ...
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #178 on: April 28, 2012, 10:36:19 am »
Ignore


Disturbing ...
Google's cheek in offering that "translation" programe? Quite.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Meeker
meekermariner
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14170


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: -2.61

View Profile
« Reply #179 on: April 28, 2012, 01:35:50 pm »
Ignore

What's the best English-language source for news coverage of this? (Is there like a France24 equivalent?)
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #180 on: April 28, 2012, 01:56:28 pm »
Ignore

And what's it with the Commies and the islands (the Ionian islands and Lesbos and Samos, to be precise)?
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Peter the Lefty
Peternerdman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3439
United States


View Profile
« Reply #181 on: April 30, 2012, 07:48:22 pm »
Ignore

one of last polls :

01-ND........................21.5% (liberal)
02-PASOK..................14% (social-liberal)
03-SYRISA.................13% (radical left)
04-ANEL....................11% (national-conservative)
05-KKE......................11% (communist)
06-DIMAR....................9.5% (social-liberal)
07-XA..........................5.5% (nazi)
08-OP.........................3.5% (green)
09-LAOS.....................3% (nationalist)
10-DISY.......................2% (liberal)
11-ANTARSYA..............1% (?est.)(liberal)
12-DRASI....................1% (?est.)(liberal)

13-EPAM.....................1%
(?) (no information. on their site, they speak about FYROM, but, can't determine his political ideology)
PASOK has always been considered socialist/social democratic, but if we're going to call them what they really are, than you may as well call them neo-liberal.  But DIMAR is socialist/social democratic rather than left-liberal, no?
Logged



-7.61 Economic
-7.48 Social
Landslide Lyndon
px75
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9156
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -2.58, S: -5.22

View Profile
« Reply #182 on: April 30, 2012, 07:58:58 pm »
Ignore

one of last polls :

01-ND........................21.5% (liberal)
02-PASOK..................14% (social-liberal)
03-SYRISA.................13% (radical left)
04-ANEL....................11% (national-conservative)
05-KKE......................11% (communist)
06-DIMAR....................9.5% (social-liberal)
07-XA..........................5.5% (nazi)
08-OP.........................3.5% (green)
09-LAOS.....................3% (nationalist)
10-DISY.......................2% (liberal)
11-ANTARSYA..............1% (?est.)(liberal)
12-DRASI....................1% (?est.)(liberal)

13-EPAM.....................1%
(?) (no information. on their site, they speak about FYROM, but, can't determine his political ideology)
PASOK has always been considered socialist/social democratic, but if we're going to call them what they really are, than you may as well call them neo-liberal.  But DIMAR is socialist/social democratic rather than left-liberal, no?

Nobody really knows. Besides their opposition to austerity and some rather innocuous, garden variety leftist slogans, DIMAR has refused to make any concrete proposals about how we should deal with the crisis. And their position about staying in the Eurozone can be described at best as ambiguous and at worst as muddled and incoherent.   
Logged

Bob Findley: "You're a real dyed-in-the-wool son-of-a-bitch. Anyone ever told you that?"
Steve Everett: "Just close friends and family,"

Clint Eastwood's "True Crime", 1999.
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #183 on: May 01, 2012, 03:33:44 am »
Ignore

Basically "try to renegotiate with the EU because this is clearly not acceptable; but we don't really want to burn all bridges either so exiting the Eurozone is very much only a last resort even though it needs to be at least sort of on the table", which isn't all that different from Syriza, right? While the KKE stance is of course "we told you so. Now let's giddout".

Does anyone happen to have results be nomos for 1993 or earlier years?
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Landslide Lyndon
px75
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9156
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -2.58, S: -5.22

View Profile
« Reply #184 on: May 01, 2012, 05:01:52 am »
Ignore

Basically "try to renegotiate with the EU because this is clearly not acceptable; but we don't really want to burn all bridges either so exiting the Eurozone is very much only a last resort even though it needs to be at least sort of on the table", which isn't all that different from Syriza, right? While the KKE stance is of course "we told you so. Now let's giddout".

Does anyone happen to have results be nomos for 1993 or earlier years?

Yeah, something like that, even though they are much more vague when they actually talk about it.
SYRIZA actually has drifted much closer to KKE when it comes to Europe, that's after all the main reason why Kouvelis and the others left it and formed DIMAR.

I will try to find something for you Lewis.
Logged

Bob Findley: "You're a real dyed-in-the-wool son-of-a-bitch. Anyone ever told you that?"
Steve Everett: "Just close friends and family,"

Clint Eastwood's "True Crime", 1999.
Landslide Lyndon
px75
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9156
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -2.58, S: -5.22

View Profile
« Reply #185 on: May 01, 2012, 05:49:33 am »
Ignore

There you go, not exact results but maps from 1974 to 2009.

http://www.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_articles_kathpolitics_1_25/09/2009_1289690
Logged

Bob Findley: "You're a real dyed-in-the-wool son-of-a-bitch. Anyone ever told you that?"
Steve Everett: "Just close friends and family,"

Clint Eastwood's "True Crime", 1999.
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #186 on: May 01, 2012, 06:06:33 am »
Ignore

Thanks, it's something. Smiley
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3181
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #187 on: May 02, 2012, 08:14:08 am »
Ignore

I hadn't realised New Democracy's logo's similar to the old Tory one.
Logged

DL
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1070
Canada
View Profile
« Reply #188 on: May 02, 2012, 09:30:53 am »
Ignore

Quote from: Landslide Lyndon link=topic=145547.msg3280115#msg3280115

[b
01-ND........................21.5% (liberal)



Since when is New Democracy a "liberal" party. i thought they were the traditional party of the Greek right and were very small "c" conservative. They are part of the EPP in the European Parliament along with all those other conservative parties.
Logged
Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3181
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #189 on: May 02, 2012, 01:05:27 pm »
Ignore

Most conservative parties are liberals ie 'liberal conservatives'.
Logged

only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #190 on: May 02, 2012, 02:06:23 pm »
Ignore

Color.me.effing.shocked.

I had just assumed... I mean, this is Greece... they've been led by Karamanlites and Papandreoi (or whatever the accurate plural forms are Wink ) as long as I can remember... and there are no other Venizeloi on wikipedia besides Evangelos, Eleutherios, and Eleutherios' son.

But:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_evangelos_venizelos_related_to_eleutherios_venizelos
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #191 on: May 02, 2012, 02:08:47 pm »
Ignore

English Spiegel article on the major parties
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #192 on: May 02, 2012, 02:19:12 pm »
Ignore

And what's it with the Commies and the islands (the Ionian islands and Lesbos and Samos, to be precise)?
Not to mention, Ikaria.

I just had a look over municipal election results in Samos nomos in 2009 (the old municipalities) and then checked where they actually are.

The KKE won all three municipalities on Ikaria, since merged. The combined tally on the island was
KKE 37.1%
PASOK 25.5%
ND 17.7%
Syriza 10.2%
LAOS 3.4%
Greens (just under) 3.0%
other 3.0%

That's a far-left majority, if you will. The relatively sizable other vote is also topped by Antarsia, KKE (ML) and suchlike.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 02:31:09 pm by Minion of Midas »Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Colbert
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 341
France


View Profile
« Reply #193 on: May 03, 2012, 01:39:07 am »
Ignore

'found a poll....but i'm not certain the date is right

http://www.vprc.gr/uplds/File/teleytaia%20nea/Graphs_PoliticalSurvey_Kontra_April2012.pdf


only 68.4 % of people answering voting a party. So I take the results on base 100 upon base 68.4


SYRISA   18,42
ND   15,2
DIMAR   13,6
KKE   12,72
PASOK   8,63
ANEL   7,89
XA   6,29
LAOS   4,97
greens   4,24
DISY   2,05
DRASI   1,17
ANTARSYA   0,88
autres   3,95
Logged
Landslide Lyndon
px75
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9156
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -2.58, S: -5.22

View Profile
« Reply #194 on: May 03, 2012, 02:37:19 am »
Ignore

'found a poll....but i'm not certain the date is right

http://www.vprc.gr/uplds/File/teleytaia%20nea/Graphs_PoliticalSurvey_Kontra_April2012.pdf


only 68.4 % of people answering voting a party. So I take the results on base 100 upon base 68.4


SYRISA   18,42
ND   15,2
DIMAR   13,6
KKE   12,72
PASOK   8,63
ANEL   7,89
XA   6,29
LAOS   4,97
greens   4,24
DISY   2,05
DRASI   1,17
ANTARSYA   0,88
autres   3,95


That's a month old and you got the numbers wrong.
Logged

Bob Findley: "You're a real dyed-in-the-wool son-of-a-bitch. Anyone ever told you that?"
Steve Everett: "Just close friends and family,"

Clint Eastwood's "True Crime", 1999.
Meeker
meekermariner
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14170


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: -2.61

View Profile
« Reply #195 on: May 03, 2012, 02:01:29 pm »
Ignore

So this basically has to result in a coalition, right? There's no way anyone is getting to 40%.
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #196 on: May 04, 2012, 12:53:17 pm »
Ignore

Yessir. Which means the Greek vote and then Merkel declares the result.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
The Mikado
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14416


View Profile
« Reply #197 on: May 04, 2012, 04:39:31 pm »
Ignore

Given that, even though they're the "system parties" they f**king hate each other on general principle, could an ND/PASOK grand coalition even function? 
Logged

Einzige is a poltroon who cowardly turns down duel challenges he should be honor-bound to accept. The Code Duello authorizes you to mock and belittle such a pathetic honorless scoundrel.
Bacon King
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15842
United States Minor Outlying Islands


View Profile
« Reply #198 on: May 05, 2012, 03:06:45 am »
Ignore

Given the high likelihood of an incredibly fractured Parliament, here's the procedure for forming a government in Greece in the absence of a Parliamentary majority:

  • As soon as the new Parliament takes office, the President gives the leader of the largest party an exploratory mandate, and this leader has three days to form a Government that can hold the confidence of Parliament.
  • If the first party can't form a government in three days, the President gives the leader of the second largest party an exploratory mandate, again with three days.
  • If that party can't form a government in time either, then the President gives the third largest party's leader an exploratory mandate and another three three days.
(note: in the event of a tie in seat total, the party with more votes in the last election takes precedence. If there's a tie for third place [or a three-way tie for second place, I suppose] the President has the option of giving a fourth exploratory mandate to the tied party. In no circumstance can he give more than four.)
  • If all of the exploratory mandates fail, the President is required to convene and chair a meeting of all Parliamentary party leaders (even inviting, if he desires, the leaders of parties too small to form official Parliamentary groups). At this meeting, one last chance exists for the various party leaders to negotiate and attempt to form a coalition.
  • If that fails too, the President must "make every endeavor" to have an all-party unity government formed in order to immediately administer new elections.
  • If the President can't even get the parties to cooperate for that, he has to pick one of the Chief Justices of Greece's three Supreme Courts to form a Cabinet to call for new elections. The President then dissolves Parliament.


Essentially, Greece has some pretty strict time limits for coalition negotiations that could lead to a very intense nine/ten days, and if ND (assuming they're the largest party, o/c) can't manage to form a government in 72 hours, then the parties that have the second and third most seats suddenly become much more important (and there's like six different parties those could be).
Logged

BK without all the crazy drugs just wouldn't be BK.

Swedish Cheese
JOHN91043353
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3780
Sweden


Political Matrix
E: 2.71, S: -4.00

View Profile
« Reply #199 on: May 05, 2012, 03:24:04 am »
Ignore

Essentially, Greece has some pretty strict time limits for coalition negotiations that could lead to a very intense nine/ten days, and if ND (assuming they're the largest party, o/c) can't manage to form a government in 72 hours, then the parties that have the second and third most seats suddenly become much more important (and there's like six different parties those could be).

Thank God, if there's anything Greece doesn't need it's to become another Belgium. I wish more countries had this rule. Allowing coalition negociations for months is not good for anyone.
Logged

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 ... 47 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines