Greece 2012
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Author Topic: Greece 2012  (Read 221710 times)
Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #675 on: May 17, 2012, 04:32:29 AM »

So the new elections are scheduled for the same day as the second round of French legislatives, after the previous ones were held on the same day as the second round of the Presidential. It's a conspiracy ! Wink
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #676 on: May 17, 2012, 04:38:52 AM »

June 17th is of course also the perfect date for a popular uprising against authoritarian Germans. Grin
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Iannis
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« Reply #677 on: May 17, 2012, 05:50:09 AM »


I mentioned before the elections that I'd vote for DISY on May 6.

This time I'll wait and see. If the first place is contested then I might be forced to hold my nose and vote for ND, just to stop those SYRIZA clowns from taking us back to the drachma.

Well, At this point I think it's necessary to vote ND, Syiriza could really be the first party.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #678 on: May 17, 2012, 06:53:51 AM »

The ECB can very well print money and act as lender of last resort, there is no need for a law to do that. The only obstacle is Germany's psychotic fear of inflation.

If the ECB starts doing this at a scale that's going to make a difference for Greece, within a few years euro will be a currency of Greece and Greece alone Smiley)

Yeah, just like all that quantitative easing by the Fed devalued the dollar. Roll Eyes
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SPQR
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« Reply #679 on: May 17, 2012, 07:05:07 AM »

Syriza must win this, then the new government must go tell Merkel that either they get the money they need or the whole eurozone goes down.

The reports I've seen in the last several days seem to indicate that Greece leaving the Eurozone wouldn't actually be the end of the world. Even if the extreme left-wing wants it to be true.
The reports I've seen seem to indicate lots of trouble for Spanish and Italian banks...
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #680 on: May 17, 2012, 09:02:11 AM »

What's greek for Iatrogenesis?
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Simfan34
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« Reply #681 on: May 17, 2012, 09:39:49 AM »
« Edited: May 17, 2012, 09:43:50 AM by Severe Simfan34 »

What's greek for Iatrogenesis?

Probably iatrogenesis.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #682 on: May 17, 2012, 09:44:52 AM »

And what happens if these elections fail to produce a government?
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #683 on: May 17, 2012, 09:52:47 AM »

And what happens if these elections fail to produce a government?

New Elections.
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ag
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« Reply #684 on: May 17, 2012, 10:25:41 AM »

And what happens if these elections fail to produce a government?

New Elections.

European non-government practices are fairly diverse, aren't they?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #685 on: May 17, 2012, 12:23:49 PM »

And what happens if these elections fail to produce a government?

New Elections.

European non-government practices are fairly diverse, aren't they?

I'm starting to think the Belgian model is highly preferable...
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #686 on: May 17, 2012, 12:25:03 PM »


I think you missed my point there.
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Dereich
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« Reply #687 on: May 17, 2012, 12:45:14 PM »

I was just listening to the BBC world news program that NPR has sometimes and there was someone speaking for SYRIZA. He was saying that by threating to default within the Euro  unless their demands were met they were fighting for the 99% of Europeans and that the whole European project couldn't possibly survive without Greece. When the guy saying that the people of Europe were thanking Greece for theatening to default I started yelling at my radio.

Do the Greeks really believe that they are winning friends right now? If they turn out to be right about being able to hold Europe hostage for better terms I'd be in shock.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #688 on: May 17, 2012, 12:47:51 PM »
« Edited: May 17, 2012, 12:56:21 PM by Iatrogenesis »

I was just listening to the BBC world news program that NPR has sometimes and there was someone speaking for SYRIZA. He was saying that by threating to default within the Euro  unless their demands were met they were fighting for the 99% of Europeans and that the whole European project couldn't possibly survive without Greece. When the guy saying that the people of Europe were thanking Greece for theatening to default I started yelling at my radio.

Do the Greeks really believe that they are winning friends right now? If they turn out to be right about being able to hold Europe hostage for better terms I'd be in shock.

SYRIZA = Greece?

Tbh, "Greece" hasn't been winning much friends from the start of this whole crisis dealey. But neither have the other states involved indicated much desire to be friends with it.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #689 on: May 17, 2012, 12:49:37 PM »

I was just listening to the BBC world news program that NPR has sometimes and there was someone speaking for SYRIZA. He was saying that by threating to default within the Euro  unless their demands were met they were fighting for the 99% of Europeans and that the whole European project couldn't possibly survive without Greece. When the guy saying that the people of Europe were thanking Greece for theatening to default I started yelling at my radio.

Do the Greeks really believe that they are winning friends right now? If they turn out to be right about being able to hold Europe hostage for better terms I'd be in shock.

Winning friends ? Why would the victim ask its torturer to become friends ?
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politicus
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« Reply #690 on: May 17, 2012, 01:04:16 PM »

Where is a lot of sympathy for the Greeks from left wingers in Scandinavian countries, I would guess that the left in other European countries is also quite sympathetic to the torments of the ordinary Greeks. But maybe its just because we are generaly euro sceptics.

Even a lot of rigt wingers on the anti-EU side here in Denmark are fairly sympathetic towards the Greeks (guess you could call them ANEL symphatizers).

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Dereich
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« Reply #691 on: May 17, 2012, 01:05:35 PM »

I was just listening to the BBC world news program that NPR has sometimes and there was someone speaking for SYRIZA. He was saying that by threating to default within the Euro  unless their demands were met they were fighting for the 99% of Europeans and that the whole European project couldn't possibly survive without Greece. When the guy saying that the people of Europe were thanking Greece for theatening to default I started yelling at my radio.

Do the Greeks really believe that they are winning friends right now? If they turn out to be right about being able to hold Europe hostage for better terms I'd be in shock.

Winning friends ? Why would the victim ask its torturer to become friends ?

They meant winning friends among the European masses, not the European governments.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #692 on: May 17, 2012, 01:15:29 PM »

I was just listening to the BBC world news program that NPR has sometimes and there was someone speaking for SYRIZA. He was saying that by threating to default within the Euro  unless their demands were met they were fighting for the 99% of Europeans and that the whole European project couldn't possibly survive without Greece. When the guy saying that the people of Europe were thanking Greece for theatening to default I started yelling at my radio.

Do the Greeks really believe that they are winning friends right now? If they turn out to be right about being able to hold Europe hostage for better terms I'd be in shock.

Winning friends ? Why would the victim ask its torturer to become friends ?

They meant winning friends among the European masses, not the European governments.

Does it matter though ? I guess a third of European public opinion recognizes greeks as victims, a third thinks they're just lazy bastards who would are taking their money away and another third doesn't give a damn. There's not much they can do to change their image.

On the other hand, it is clear that polite requests or desperate supplications haven't convinced the neoliberal clique ruling Europe. Therefore, it's time to try something else, such as blackmailing.
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Franzl
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« Reply #693 on: May 17, 2012, 01:28:42 PM »

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio? Wink
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #694 on: May 17, 2012, 01:57:33 PM »

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio? Wink

I guess you know that it has never been about actually giving any money, right ?
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #695 on: May 17, 2012, 02:07:27 PM »

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio? Wink

If your countrymen continue with that line of thought, you'll be dragged into a crippling economic crisis as well, even if it's of a different sort.
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Franzl
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« Reply #696 on: May 17, 2012, 03:40:11 PM »

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio? Wink

I guess you know that it has never been about actually giving any money, right ?

If SYRIZA wins, it was a lot of money given.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #697 on: May 17, 2012, 05:15:37 PM »

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio? Wink

I guess you know that it has never been about actually giving any money, right ?

If SYRIZA wins, it was a lot of money given.

Well, we wouldn't be there if the German governments didn't bullied neoliberalism on all Europe...
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Franzl
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« Reply #698 on: May 17, 2012, 05:22:11 PM »

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio? Wink

I guess you know that it has never been about actually giving any money, right ?

If SYRIZA wins, it was a lot of money given.

Well, we wouldn't be there if the German governments didn't bullied neoliberalism on all Europe...

You know, I do think you're rather simplifying this problem. I think several things happened that even made this situation possible, such as forming a common currency in the first place, not to mention the corrupt former Greek governments falsifying their data and so on to get in.

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MaxQue
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« Reply #699 on: May 17, 2012, 06:07:46 PM »

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio? Wink

I guess you know that it has never been about actually giving any money, right ?

If SYRIZA wins, it was a lot of money given.

Well, we wouldn't be there if the German governments didn't bullied neoliberalism on all Europe...

You know, I do think you're rather simplifying this problem. I think several things happened that even made this situation possible, such as forming a common currency in the first place, not to mention the corrupt former Greek governments falsifying their data and so on to get in.



I know than I'm oversimplifying things, but I think than the fight against neoliberalism is more important than all those details. It is quite possible to have Euro and to not use it for pushing neoliberalism.

As for Greeks cooking their books, that's a problem, but Greek people shouldn't be punished because their government is corrupt. Measures against corruption must be taken, in the whole of Europe, to that situation to not repeat.
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