Greece 2012
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Author Topic: Greece 2012  (Read 222005 times)
Tender Branson
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« Reply #175 on: April 28, 2012, 09:09:42 AM »

Here's the standard.at article about XA translated to English with Google Translate:

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Disturbing ...
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #176 on: April 28, 2012, 10:36:19 AM »

Google's cheek in offering that "translation" programe? Quite.
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Meeker
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« Reply #177 on: April 28, 2012, 01:35:50 PM »

What's the best English-language source for news coverage of this? (Is there like a France24 equivalent?)
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #178 on: April 28, 2012, 01:56:28 PM »

And what's it with the Commies and the islands (the Ionian islands and Lesbos and Samos, to be precise)?
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Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #179 on: April 30, 2012, 07:48:22 PM »

one of last polls :

01-ND........................21.5% (liberal)
02-PASOK..................14% (social-liberal)
03-SYRISA.................13% (radical left)
04-ANEL....................11% (national-conservative)
05-KKE......................11% (communist)
06-DIMAR....................9.5% (social-liberal)
07-XA..........................5.5% (nazi)
08-OP.........................3.5% (green)
09-LAOS.....................3% (nationalist)
10-DISY.......................2% (liberal)
11-ANTARSYA..............1% (?est.)(liberal)
12-DRASI....................1% (?est.)(liberal)

13-EPAM.....................1%
(?) (no information. on their site, they speak about FYROM, but, can't determine his political ideology)
PASOK has always been considered socialist/social democratic, but if we're going to call them what they really are, than you may as well call them neo-liberal.  But DIMAR is socialist/social democratic rather than left-liberal, no?
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #180 on: April 30, 2012, 07:58:58 PM »

one of last polls :

01-ND........................21.5% (liberal)
02-PASOK..................14% (social-liberal)
03-SYRISA.................13% (radical left)
04-ANEL....................11% (national-conservative)
05-KKE......................11% (communist)
06-DIMAR....................9.5% (social-liberal)
07-XA..........................5.5% (nazi)
08-OP.........................3.5% (green)
09-LAOS.....................3% (nationalist)
10-DISY.......................2% (liberal)
11-ANTARSYA..............1% (?est.)(liberal)
12-DRASI....................1% (?est.)(liberal)

13-EPAM.....................1%
(?) (no information. on their site, they speak about FYROM, but, can't determine his political ideology)
PASOK has always been considered socialist/social democratic, but if we're going to call them what they really are, than you may as well call them neo-liberal.  But DIMAR is socialist/social democratic rather than left-liberal, no?

Nobody really knows. Besides their opposition to austerity and some rather innocuous, garden variety leftist slogans, DIMAR has refused to make any concrete proposals about how we should deal with the crisis. And their position about staying in the Eurozone can be described at best as ambiguous and at worst as muddled and incoherent.   
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #181 on: May 01, 2012, 03:33:44 AM »

Basically "try to renegotiate with the EU because this is clearly not acceptable; but we don't really want to burn all bridges either so exiting the Eurozone is very much only a last resort even though it needs to be at least sort of on the table", which isn't all that different from Syriza, right? While the KKE stance is of course "we told you so. Now let's giddout".

Does anyone happen to have results be nomos for 1993 or earlier years?
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #182 on: May 01, 2012, 05:01:52 AM »

Basically "try to renegotiate with the EU because this is clearly not acceptable; but we don't really want to burn all bridges either so exiting the Eurozone is very much only a last resort even though it needs to be at least sort of on the table", which isn't all that different from Syriza, right? While the KKE stance is of course "we told you so. Now let's giddout".

Does anyone happen to have results be nomos for 1993 or earlier years?

Yeah, something like that, even though they are much more vague when they actually talk about it.
SYRIZA actually has drifted much closer to KKE when it comes to Europe, that's after all the main reason why Kouvelis and the others left it and formed DIMAR.

I will try to find something for you Lewis.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #183 on: May 01, 2012, 05:49:33 AM »

There you go, not exact results but maps from 1974 to 2009.

http://www.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_articles_kathpolitics_1_25/09/2009_1289690
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #184 on: May 01, 2012, 06:06:33 AM »

Thanks, it's something. Smiley
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #185 on: May 02, 2012, 08:14:08 AM »

I hadn't realised New Democracy's logo's similar to the old Tory one.
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DL
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« Reply #186 on: May 02, 2012, 09:30:53 AM »

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Since when is New Democracy a "liberal" party. i thought they were the traditional party of the Greek right and were very small "c" conservative. They are part of the EPP in the European Parliament along with all those other conservative parties.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #187 on: May 02, 2012, 01:05:27 PM »

Most conservative parties are liberals ie 'liberal conservatives'.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #188 on: May 02, 2012, 02:06:23 PM »

Color.me.effing.shocked.

I had just assumed... I mean, this is Greece... they've been led by Karamanlites and Papandreoi (or whatever the accurate plural forms are Wink ) as long as I can remember... and there are no other Venizeloi on wikipedia besides Evangelos, Eleutherios, and Eleutherios' son.

But:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_evangelos_venizelos_related_to_eleutherios_venizelos
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #189 on: May 02, 2012, 02:08:47 PM »

English Spiegel article on the major parties
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #190 on: May 02, 2012, 02:19:12 PM »
« Edited: May 02, 2012, 02:31:09 PM by Minion of Midas »

And what's it with the Commies and the islands (the Ionian islands and Lesbos and Samos, to be precise)?
Not to mention, Ikaria.

I just had a look over municipal election results in Samos nomos in 2009 (the old municipalities) and then checked where they actually are.

The KKE won all three municipalities on Ikaria, since merged. The combined tally on the island was
KKE 37.1%
PASOK 25.5%
ND 17.7%
Syriza 10.2%
LAOS 3.4%
Greens (just under) 3.0%
other 3.0%

That's a far-left majority, if you will. The relatively sizable other vote is also topped by Antarsia, KKE (ML) and suchlike.
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Colbert
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« Reply #191 on: May 03, 2012, 01:39:07 AM »

'found a poll....but i'm not certain the date is right

http://www.vprc.gr/uplds/File/teleytaia%20nea/Graphs_PoliticalSurvey_Kontra_April2012.pdf


only 68.4 % of people answering voting a party. So I take the results on base 100 upon base 68.4


SYRISA   18,42
ND   15,2
DIMAR   13,6
KKE   12,72
PASOK   8,63
ANEL   7,89
XA   6,29
LAOS   4,97
greens   4,24
DISY   2,05
DRASI   1,17
ANTARSYA   0,88
autres   3,95
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #192 on: May 03, 2012, 02:37:19 AM »

'found a poll....but i'm not certain the date is right

http://www.vprc.gr/uplds/File/teleytaia%20nea/Graphs_PoliticalSurvey_Kontra_April2012.pdf


only 68.4 % of people answering voting a party. So I take the results on base 100 upon base 68.4


SYRISA   18,42
ND   15,2
DIMAR   13,6
KKE   12,72
PASOK   8,63
ANEL   7,89
XA   6,29
LAOS   4,97
greens   4,24
DISY   2,05
DRASI   1,17
ANTARSYA   0,88
autres   3,95


That's a month old and you got the numbers wrong.
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Meeker
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« Reply #193 on: May 03, 2012, 02:01:29 PM »

So this basically has to result in a coalition, right? There's no way anyone is getting to 40%.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #194 on: May 04, 2012, 12:53:17 PM »

Yessir. Which means the Greek vote and then Merkel declares the result.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #195 on: May 04, 2012, 04:39:31 PM »

Given that, even though they're the "system parties" they f**king hate each other on general principle, could an ND/PASOK grand coalition even function? 
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Bacon King
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« Reply #196 on: May 05, 2012, 03:06:45 AM »

Given the high likelihood of an incredibly fractured Parliament, here's the procedure for forming a government in Greece in the absence of a Parliamentary majority:

  • As soon as the new Parliament takes office, the President gives the leader of the largest party an exploratory mandate, and this leader has three days to form a Government that can hold the confidence of Parliament.
  • If the first party can't form a government in three days, the President gives the leader of the second largest party an exploratory mandate, again with three days.
  • If that party can't form a government in time either, then the President gives the third largest party's leader an exploratory mandate and another three three days.
(note: in the event of a tie in seat total, the party with more votes in the last election takes precedence. If there's a tie for third place [or a three-way tie for second place, I suppose] the President has the option of giving a fourth exploratory mandate to the tied party. In no circumstance can he give more than four.)
  • If all of the exploratory mandates fail, the President is required to convene and chair a meeting of all Parliamentary party leaders (even inviting, if he desires, the leaders of parties too small to form official Parliamentary groups). At this meeting, one last chance exists for the various party leaders to negotiate and attempt to form a coalition.
  • If that fails too, the President must "make every endeavor" to have an all-party unity government formed in order to immediately administer new elections.
  • If the President can't even get the parties to cooperate for that, he has to pick one of the Chief Justices of Greece's three Supreme Courts to form a Cabinet to call for new elections. The President then dissolves Parliament.


Essentially, Greece has some pretty strict time limits for coalition negotiations that could lead to a very intense nine/ten days, and if ND (assuming they're the largest party, o/c) can't manage to form a government in 72 hours, then the parties that have the second and third most seats suddenly become much more important (and there's like six different parties those could be).
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Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese
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« Reply #197 on: May 05, 2012, 03:24:04 AM »

Essentially, Greece has some pretty strict time limits for coalition negotiations that could lead to a very intense nine/ten days, and if ND (assuming they're the largest party, o/c) can't manage to form a government in 72 hours, then the parties that have the second and third most seats suddenly become much more important (and there's like six different parties those could be).

Thank God, if there's anything Greece doesn't need it's to become another Belgium. I wish more countries had this rule. Allowing coalition negociations for months is not good for anyone.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #198 on: May 05, 2012, 03:32:01 AM »

Given the high likelihood of an incredibly fractured Parliament, here's the procedure for forming a government in Greece in the absence of a Parliamentary majority:

  • As soon as the new Parliament takes office
How long after the elections themselves is that?
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Bacon King
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« Reply #199 on: May 05, 2012, 04:22:45 AM »
« Edited: May 05, 2012, 04:24:22 AM by Bacon King »

Given the high likelihood of an incredibly fractured Parliament, here's the procedure for forming a government in Greece in the absence of a Parliamentary majority:

  • As soon as the new Parliament takes office
How long after the elections themselves is that?

The Greek Constitution states it has to be within thirty days of the election, with the specific date specified in the Presidential decree that called for the election.

My Google Fu must be getting rusty because it actually took me a few minutes to find the date: the 14th Session of the Hellenic Parliament will take office on May 17th. Smiley

So that's two weeks of negotiations available for the party that wins the 50 bonus seats.
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