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Author Topic: Greece 2012  (Read 57198 times)
Bacon King
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« Reply #475 on: May 07, 2012, 01:06:59 pm »
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A pity the greens didn't get in. Tongue

I'm positively surprised the turnout didn't dwindle that much. Unless 65% is unusually low for Greece, but I doubt it is.

It is, actually. Lowest Greek turnout for legislative elections in modern times. Voting is mandatory in Greece, and although there are no penalties enforced against non-voters, I think that still boosts participation somewhat. Greek turnout has historically been stable at around 80% (even through the 89-89-90 election trio). Over the two decades it's fallen some, usually been around 75%. 2009 was the lowest turnout since the dictatorship at 'only' 71%.

Who do you think will gain from a new election? Establishment or new parties?

I don't see how the establishment could benefit from all of this, though I suppose anything is possible.
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« Reply #476 on: May 07, 2012, 01:12:09 pm »
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A pity the greens didn't get in. Tongue

I'm positively surprised the turnout didn't dwindle that much. Unless 65% is unusually low for Greece, but I doubt it is.

It is, actually. Lowest Greek turnout for legislative elections in modern times. Voting is mandatory in Greece, and although there are no penalties enforced against non-voters, I think that still boosts participation somewhat. Greek turnout has historically been stable at around 80% (even through the 89-89-90 election trio). Over the two decades it's fallen some, usually been around 75%. 2009 was the lowest turnout since the dictatorship at 'only' 71%.

Ah, I see. Well, I still think it could have been worse.
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« Reply #477 on: May 07, 2012, 01:14:56 pm »
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20% for parties below threshold - and it didn't even fulfill the supposed goal of "keeping Nazis out."  Can we please abolish such things?
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« Reply #478 on: May 07, 2012, 01:19:56 pm »
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20% for parties below threshold - and it didn't even fulfill the supposed goal of "keeping Nazis out."  Can we please abolish such things?
The parties between 1-3% where 3 centre-right parties, 1 green party, 1 xenophobic right wing populist party and 1 trotskyist party. So 4 "good" and 2 "bad" ones.
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« Reply #479 on: May 07, 2012, 02:43:01 pm »
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Results in the Ikarian Soviet Republic:

KKE 41%
Syriza 20%
everybody else below 10

And some outfit called Koinoniki Symfonia that polled just under 1% nationally topped the poll in the small dodecanese island municipality of Astypalaia.
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« Reply #480 on: May 07, 2012, 03:01:47 pm »
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Regarding the seat distribution: Unlike the 74-85 and 93-2000 system, it's only the distribution down to the constituencies that is beyond complex. The national figures are perfectly proportional (largest remainder method) apart from the threshold and the 50 (formerly 40) seat bonus.
Any system that distributes national seat totals down to constituencies with fixed numbers of seats (and they exist in a number of European countries; Italy, Norway, Denmark IIRC, probably more) ends up forced to distribute some of these seats essentially at random, esp. if the constituencies vary widely in size. (Germany even manages to distribute some seats essentially at random despite not fixing the number of seats per constituency!) Add the problem of the majority bonus and the nature of this election, and very strange things were always certain to happen.
Well, I suppose it's good to know for an MP how he got elected. Grin
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« Reply #481 on: May 07, 2012, 03:09:11 pm »
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And some outfit called Koinoniki Symfonia that polled just under 1% nationally topped the poll in the small dodecanese island municipality of Astypalaia.


Erm, no they didn't -- it seems they got only 1 vote there: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2012/may/06/greece-elections-results-map?newsfeed=true
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« Reply #482 on: May 07, 2012, 03:20:30 pm »
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Disy won municipilities in crete and thrace.
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« Reply #483 on: May 07, 2012, 03:46:23 pm »
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E4AXJx3IzdY

Well... that was, ehm, interesting.
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« Reply #484 on: May 07, 2012, 03:57:01 pm »
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If we have elections next month then the constituencies will change based on the 2011 census.
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« Reply #485 on: May 07, 2012, 04:46:14 pm »


Voters are idiots retards who should be shot, mk 999,999,999.
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« Reply #486 on: May 07, 2012, 05:15:49 pm »
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Just fascinating. I want to see a KKE interview to really feel like I'm being transported back to the 30's, though.
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« Reply #487 on: May 07, 2012, 05:34:22 pm »
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Boy, Greece is such a mess.
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« Reply #488 on: May 07, 2012, 05:35:34 pm »
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Tsipras scheduled to officially get his exploratory mandate at 2PM tomorrow. Odds he'll make it to Wednesday before giving up?
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« Reply #489 on: May 07, 2012, 08:06:05 pm »
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I find it ironic that the currency that was supposed to enhance freedom and peace in Europe has lead to consequences such as this.

The problem is than every currency is run according to a policy (it's inevitable, even laissez-faire is a policy) and than the policies chosen were beneficial to Germany and North Europe while being detrimental to Southern Europe and France (and UK if it joined, but they saw it wouldn't be good for them).

Sure, from the German view (whose economy is technology-based), Euro is great, but, from countries who aren't beneficing from it (a stong currency manifactural-based economies), it leads to deindustrialisation and the political consequences that goes with that.
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« Reply #490 on: May 07, 2012, 08:26:01 pm »
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So, it seems logical to just keep using this thread for the June election, since it's Greece 2012?
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« Reply #491 on: May 07, 2012, 08:33:31 pm »
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Tsipras scheduled to officially get his exploratory mandate at 2PM tomorrow. Odds he'll make it to Wednesday before giving up?

(This definitely overcomplicates things, but I'm in an overcomplicating mood.)

No party has agreed to work with ND (except PASOK, but all they referred to is a "government of national unity"). Two parties have not definitively rejected cooperation with SYRIZA: PASOK and DIMAR. Let's say they cooperate and get 112 seats.

SYRIZA will still need cooperation from right-wing ANEL and Stalinist KKE. That will not happen. But SYRIZA can take the whole three days, and by the end blame those two parties for not cooperating. All this is to suck votes from KKE and ANEL sympathizers in the following election so they edge over ND.

I would say SYRIZA is most eager for an election right now. They can gain votes from new KKE voters who realizes that their votes can make more of a difference with SYRIZA, as well as votes from all those parties not in parliament. There's around 8-9% of votes for anti-austerity parties who did not get into parliament ripe for the picking.
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« Reply #492 on: May 07, 2012, 09:04:39 pm »
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SYRIZA will still need cooperation from right-wing ANEL and Stalinist KKE. That will not happen. But SYRIZA can take the whole three days, and by the end blame those two parties for not cooperating. All this is to suck votes from KKE and ANEL sympathizers in the following election so they edge over ND.

Not cooperating in forming a presumably pro-austerity coalition with PASOK and DIMAR? After all they're conflicting with SYRIZA on that, so either one has to have an enormous Damascene conversion if they're to form just that coalition, and if it's 1) PASOK & DIMAR that have had that conversion they may as well force another election to unite the left behind them, or 2) SYRIZA that's done it, then if anything SYRIZA will be losing votes to KKE, and possibly ANEL, for that betrayal and will receive no sympathy for not being able to form a coalition with the two parties who stuck to their principles.

I think SYRIZA will naturally gain votes from elsewhere, just by being hot on the heels of New Democracy - and the anti-austerity voters will have seen that (and recognise it as their best hope).

   
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« Reply #493 on: May 07, 2012, 10:53:10 pm »
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Tsipras scheduled to officially get his exploratory mandate at 2PM tomorrow. Odds he'll make it to Wednesday before giving up?

(This definitely overcomplicates things, but I'm in an overcomplicating mood.)

No party has agreed to work with ND (except PASOK, but all they referred to is a "government of national unity"). Two parties have not definitively rejected cooperation with SYRIZA: PASOK and DIMAR. Let's say they cooperate and get 112 seats.

SYRIZA will still need cooperation from right-wing ANEL and Stalinist KKE. That will not happen. But SYRIZA can take the whole three days, and by the end blame those two parties for not cooperating. All this is to suck votes from KKE and ANEL sympathizers in the following election so they edge over ND.

I would say SYRIZA is most eager for an election right now. They can gain votes from new KKE voters who realizes that their votes can make more of a difference with SYRIZA, as well as votes from all those parties not in parliament. There's around 8-9% of votes for anti-austerity parties who did not get into parliament ripe for the picking.

SYRIZA will still need cooperation from right-wing ANEL and Stalinist KKE. That will not happen. But SYRIZA can take the whole three days, and by the end blame those two parties for not cooperating. All this is to suck votes from KKE and ANEL sympathizers in the following election so they edge over ND.

Not cooperating in forming a presumably pro-austerity coalition with PASOK and DIMAR? After all they're conflicting with SYRIZA on that, so either one has to have an enormous Damascene conversion if they're to form just that coalition, and if it's 1) PASOK & DIMAR that have had that conversion they may as well force another election to unite the left behind them, or 2) SYRIZA that's done it, then if anything SYRIZA will be losing votes to KKE, and possibly ANEL, for that betrayal and will receive no sympathy for not being able to form a coalition with the two parties who stuck to their principles.

I think SYRIZA will naturally gain votes from elsewhere, just by being hot on the heels of New Democracy - and the anti-austerity voters will have seen that (and recognise it as their best hope).

   


Good analysis from the both of you, but I doubt anyone is going to be losing votes to the Stalinists under any circumstance. Just not how that party operates.
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« Reply #494 on: May 08, 2012, 10:15:12 am »
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bourgeois press fail: CNBC refers to Tsipras as 'Greek Communist leader'

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47323787
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« Reply #495 on: May 08, 2012, 11:16:03 am »
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Ive noticed the North American press is quite biased in their coverage European elections.
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« Reply #496 on: May 08, 2012, 11:22:31 am »
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Ive noticed the North American press is quite biased in their coverage European elections.

You have only noticed this now?
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« Reply #497 on: May 08, 2012, 11:23:28 am »
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Ive noticed the North American press is quite biased in their coverage European elections.

You have only noticed this now?

perhaps there is a bit of a slant in Israel-Palestine too.
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« Reply #498 on: May 08, 2012, 03:08:52 pm »
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Ive noticed the North American press is quite biased in their coverage European elections.

It sucks, but at least they're biased for the good guys...

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« Reply #499 on: May 08, 2012, 03:37:49 pm »
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Ive noticed the North American press is quite biased in their coverage European elections.

It sucks, but at least they're biased for the good guys...

'Good' guys? Surely you jest.
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