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Author Topic: Greece 2012  (Read 56685 times)
Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #1100 on: June 17, 2012, 07:24:01 pm »
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We had a near death experience. Let's hope that Merkel and Co. now will act or else she might become the person that resurrects from their graves both fascism and communism.
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Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay
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« Reply #1101 on: June 17, 2012, 07:27:16 pm »
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The ball is now in Germany's court.

Yeah, and Schaüble immediately warmly welcomed them:

'Greeks have accepted to lead deep reforms tonight'

What about, after Merkel telling Greece to do 'the right choice' a few days ago, Germany to begin to consider that the concept of Freedom and of Democracy can also belong to Greeks, or more simply put, what about a bit of respect? Might eventually help things to improve...
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14/01/2011: Tunisia
11/02/2011: Egypt
20/10/2011: Libya
??/??/2013: Syria??

Money became totally unfair.
Money became totally senseless.
Let's make Money totally useless...

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Armand Duval
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« Reply #1102 on: June 17, 2012, 07:27:58 pm »
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Since it appears that many civil servants have already seen their salaries cut by 3, how will you "slash government payrolls and salaries" ?

This is an example of the contrary of democracy : when you tell people 24h/24 that something is the only way, they end up chosing it. And even if they do not, you make them vote again, and again, and again, until they vote what you demanded they should vote. Worked in Denmark, worked in Ireland, worked in France (referendum of 2005, congressional vote of 2007), apparently works in Greece...

Depresses me...
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Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay
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« Reply #1103 on: June 17, 2012, 07:31:25 pm »
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worked in France (referendum of 2005, congressional vote of 2007)

Hmm, just, the congressional vote and the referendum one aren't really the same kind, to say the least, and that's precisely something that remains a big enough issue, people like MLP can enjoy surfing on that democratic rigging...
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14/01/2011: Tunisia
11/02/2011: Egypt
20/10/2011: Libya
??/??/2013: Syria??

Money became totally unfair.
Money became totally senseless.
Let's make Money totally useless...

??/??/20??: EU UU!
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« Reply #1104 on: June 17, 2012, 07:38:52 pm »
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Since it appears that many civil servants have already seen their salaries cut by 3, how will you "slash government payrolls and salaries" ?

What are Greece's current unit labor costs? What is the month-over-month and year-over-year rate of CPI compared to Germany? What is the current account balance? What is the non-interest expenditure and its change over the past year, two years, three years?
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Ljube
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« Reply #1105 on: June 17, 2012, 07:42:45 pm »
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Where's the CNBC special report? I must have gotten the time wrong.

The Greek people have once again put in a heroic effort. The ball is now in Germany's court.

This government has six months to achieve internal devaluation, fix the current account, balance the primary deficit, and generally meet the targets of the IMF/Troika agreement. F__king around isn't going to do it any more. The success depends on things like opening up the professions (for real, not just passing a law that says 'we'll open the professions' but when you actually see more taxis on the streets), massively slashing government payrolls and government salaries, and the like, instead of enacting new taxes. Cost cuts should be focused on operations, while infrastructure and other projects to boost growth should not be cut.

If you want to see any growth in the future, you’ll have to drop out of EURO and print Drachma again. Then you’ll be able to devalue. It’ll be hard in the beginning, but you’ll return to the path of growth in no more than 2 years.

If you keep EURO you will forever be dependant on future help from Germany and others. You might also recover with EURO, but the recovery will take much longer.
 
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MaxQue
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« Reply #1106 on: June 17, 2012, 07:43:16 pm »
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Schaüble...

I eagerly wait the day where some politician of another country says him than he is Germany's Finance minister and to stop putting his nose in other countries.

I'm not sure he would like if all foreign finance ministers said him what do to.
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Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay
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« Reply #1107 on: June 17, 2012, 07:51:42 pm »
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Schaüble...

I eagerly wait the day where some politician of another country says him than he is Germany's Finance minister

Ah, no, he is more than that, he is the latest Charlemagne...



...then I guess it makes him feel fully legitimate to tell other people what they have to do anywhere in his empire...
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14/01/2011: Tunisia
11/02/2011: Egypt
20/10/2011: Libya
??/??/2013: Syria??

Money became totally unfair.
Money became totally senseless.
Let's make Money totally useless...

??/??/20??: EU UU!
Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #1108 on: June 17, 2012, 08:04:03 pm »
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God, I hope that Hollande manages to mitigate the German austerity.  That is, if he even cares.  Which I'm now getting the sense that he doesn't. 
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Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay
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« Reply #1109 on: June 17, 2012, 08:07:44 pm »
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God, I hope that Hollande manages to mitigate the German austerity.  That is, if he even cares.  Which I'm now getting the sense that he doesn't. 

Actually I've been kinda surprised of the rather firm tone that Hollande/Ayrault/Moscovici have taken with Germany, became suddenly kinda, tensed.

That being said, a tone is a tone and some words are some words, Sarkozy had used us with so much impressive big words, and...

True things will happen on the end of June, 28th iirc...
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14/01/2011: Tunisia
11/02/2011: Egypt
20/10/2011: Libya
??/??/2013: Syria??

Money became totally unfair.
Money became totally senseless.
Let's make Money totally useless...

??/??/20??: EU UU!
Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #1110 on: June 17, 2012, 08:20:50 pm »
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God, I hope that Hollande manages to mitigate the German austerity.  That is, if he even cares.  Which I'm now getting the sense that he doesn't. 

Actually I've been kinda surprised of the rather firm tone that Hollande/Ayrault/Moscovici have taken with Germany, became suddenly kinda, tensed.

That being said, a tone is a tone and some words are some words, Sarkozy had used us with so much impressive big words, and...

True things will happen on the end of June, 28th iirc...
Well, he keeps telling Greece that it has to stick to its previous commitments or be kicked out of the eurozone.  Seems like he's sold out to me.
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Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay
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« Reply #1111 on: June 17, 2012, 08:26:25 pm »
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God, I hope that Hollande manages to mitigate the German austerity.  That is, if he even cares.  Which I'm now getting the sense that he doesn't. 

Actually I've been kinda surprised of the rather firm tone that Hollande/Ayrault/Moscovici have taken with Germany, became suddenly kinda, tensed.

That being said, a tone is a tone and some words are some words, Sarkozy had used us with so much impressive big words, and...

True things will happen on the end of June, 28th iirc...
Well, he keeps telling Greece that it has to stick to its previous commitments or be kicked out of the eurozone.  Seems like he's sold out to me.

Nah, there hasn't been something like that, it's not at all the Hollande/new govt style. The point is that Hollande focuses more on building new general rules for the Politico-Economic ruling of Euro Zone rather than on focusing on Greece particularly.
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14/01/2011: Tunisia
11/02/2011: Egypt
20/10/2011: Libya
??/??/2013: Syria??

Money became totally unfair.
Money became totally senseless.
Let's make Money totally useless...

??/??/20??: EU UU!
Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #1112 on: June 17, 2012, 08:35:20 pm »
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Nah, there hasn't been something like that, it's not at all the Hollande/new govt style. The point is that Hollande focuses more on building new general rules for the Politico-Economic ruling of Euro Zone rather than on focusing on Greece particularly.
The point is that he supports the austerity measures that've already been imposed.  So, he's part of the pro-austerity circles, even if he's more pro-growth than the rest. 
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Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay
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« Reply #1113 on: June 17, 2012, 08:46:24 pm »
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Nah, there hasn't been something like that, it's not at all the Hollande/new govt style. The point is that Hollande focuses more on building new general rules for the Politico-Economic ruling of Euro Zone rather than on focusing on Greece particularly.
The point is that he supports the austerity measures that've already been imposed.  So, he's part of the pro-austerity circles, even if he's more pro-growth than the rest. 

That's Hollande, not Mélenchon.

He knows he has to manage Germany well if he wants to obtain something in counterpart, France military became far bigger than German one, but the time where we could think we could rule it by an invasion seems to be kinda over, so, seems we are condemn to, either wait a divine revelation from Germany, or to you know...negotiate...the most smartly possible, which isn't easy when you don't have the dominating position, but if countries like France, Italy, Spain and maybe soon Netherlands decide to unite for new solutions than German diktats, then the outnumbering might make change the things (especially since Euro Zone is the 1st market of Germany).

Hollande and Monti made a summit in this sense a few days ago, to prepare the European one.
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14/01/2011: Tunisia
11/02/2011: Egypt
20/10/2011: Libya
??/??/2013: Syria??

Money became totally unfair.
Money became totally senseless.
Let's make Money totally useless...

??/??/20??: EU UU!
Speaker Dereich
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« Reply #1114 on: June 17, 2012, 09:40:24 pm »
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Ok has something new changed with the whole PASOK situation? Last I heard they were totally unwilling to enter a coalition without SYRIZA, but all the news channels and the financial markets act like its a done deal.
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RodPresident
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« Reply #1115 on: June 17, 2012, 10:19:00 pm »
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Ok has something new changed with the whole PASOK situation? Last I heard they were totally unwilling to enter a coalition without SYRIZA, but all the news channels and the financial markets act like its a done deal.
Venizelos and Samaras need to keep drama going to get better conditions from Troika and to show that Syriza is unwilling to join government.
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« Reply #1116 on: June 18, 2012, 03:44:29 am »
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Schaüble...

I eagerly wait the day where some politician of another country says him than he is Germany's Finance minister and to stop putting his nose in other countries.

I'm not sure he would like if all foreign finance ministers said him what do to.

Well it's his business, considering lots of German money is at stake here. Don't like it? That's a problem caused by the EU. It's not as if Schäuble chose Greece to go bankrupt.

Schäuble is certainly one of the more competent people in charge now.
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« Reply #1117 on: June 18, 2012, 04:04:43 am »
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I am somewhat relieved about this result from a Swiss point of view. A SYRIZA victory and its dire consequences could have caused an even worse recession in Greece and Europe, which would also have affected my own country (a further deterioration of the European economy = big problems for the Swiss exporting industry = a recession in Switzerland). Now a ND victory and the possible formation of a pro-Euro coalition still don't guarantee an improvement of the current Greek situation, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #1118 on: June 18, 2012, 04:52:16 am »
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From Intrade:

Any current Eurozone member to drop out of the Euro by end of 2012: 30.2
by the end of 2013: 50.0
by the end of 2014: 59.1

All three numbers are down from a week ago, but still up quite a bit from a year ago.
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« Reply #1119 on: June 18, 2012, 05:29:01 am »
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Those of you who think German tax payers should pay for the rest of Europe without complaining or demanding anything in return...what principle is that based on?

If you've wasted all your money you can't really expect to get more with no questions asked.
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« Reply #1120 on: June 18, 2012, 05:46:01 am »
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Those of you who think German tax payers should pay for the rest of Europe without complaining or demanding anything in return...what principle is that based on?

If you've wasted all your money you can't really expect to get more with no questions asked.

European unity! And a good portion of jealousy.
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« Reply #1121 on: June 18, 2012, 06:38:53 am »
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Those of you who think German tax payers should pay for the rest of Europe without complaining or demanding anything in return...what principle is that based on?

If you've wasted all your money you can't really expect to get more with no questions asked.

European unity! And a good portion of jealousy.

If that's what "European unity" and "economic integration" is supposed to mean (i.e. some countries work hard to develop and maintain prosperous economies while other countries just waste their money and demand to be supported by the more prosperous members of the European Union) this is a scary.
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #1122 on: June 18, 2012, 06:43:42 am »
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Stupidity...
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« Reply #1123 on: June 18, 2012, 06:49:23 am »
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Those of you who think German tax payers should pay for the rest of Europe without complaining or demanding anything in return...what principle is that based on?

Stupidity...

Thanks for answering Gustaf's question. Wink
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #1124 on: June 18, 2012, 06:51:27 am »
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Those of you who think German tax payers should pay for the rest of Europe without complaining or demanding anything in return...what principle is that based on?

If you've wasted all your money you can't really expect to get more with no questions asked.

European unity! And a good portion of jealousy.

If that's what "European unity" and "economic integration" is supposed to mean (i.e. some countries work hard to develop and maintain prosperous economies while other countries just waste their money and demand to be supported by the more prosperous members of the European Union) this is a scary.

The problem is that that is already what has happened without anyone really realizing it or intending it to be the case.
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