Greece 2012

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Bit like the Spanish election: they hate both main parties.

In Spain, the PP, despite running an incompetent campaign with an incompetent leader that nobody seems to like, managed to win the best result in their history.

Meanwhile, according to this poll, the ND would be the biggest party in parliament despite actually getting a smaller share of the vote than in 2009.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Actually, I have to wonder.. if that result came to pass, would sort of government would form?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Number of polls now showing the PASOK in third or worst place behind the Commies or other leftie parties. Also, LAOS seems to be crashing and burning a bit.

Source?

Don't doubting it but you would like to see it. Are the Commies in second then?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The thought that 435 thousand of my compatriots voted the Neo-Nazis is enough to give me a depression.
 

That's truly frightening that the wonderful, peace creating Euro has allowed national socialists to enter a European parliament again.

Would it be banal of me to reflect that currencies, being abstractions, can't vote.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The thought that 435 thousand of my compatriots voted the Neo-Nazis is enough to give me a depression.
 

That's truly frightening that the wonderful, peace creating Euro has allowed national socialists to enter a European parliament again.

Would it be banal of me to reflect that currencies, being abstractions, can't vote.

That's true, but exactly by being abstractions they can influence society and politics much more than us, physical beings.

Yes, but so do many other things...

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The thought that 435 thousand of my compatriots voted the Neo-Nazis is enough to give me a depression.
 

That's truly frightening that the wonderful, peace creating Euro has allowed national socialists to enter a European parliament again.

Would it be banal of me to reflect that currencies, being abstractions, can't vote.

That's true, but exactly by being abstractions they can influence society and politics much more than us, physical beings.

Yes, but so do many other things...

And which other boosted utterly-retarded votes in Greece?

Can we at least go a few minutes without marking disparaging remarks about Greeks? I know some forumers seem to find that very difficult but hey, fairness and analysis and all that.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The thought that 435 thousand of my compatriots voted the Neo-Nazis is enough to give me a depression.
 

That's truly frightening that the wonderful, peace creating Euro has allowed national socialists to enter a European parliament again.

Would it be banal of me to reflect that currencies, being abstractions, can't vote.

That's true, but exactly by being abstractions they can influence society and politics much more than us, physical beings.

Yes, but so do many other things...

And which other boosted utterly-retarded votes in Greece?

Can we at least go a few minutes without marking disparaging remarks about Greeks? I know some forumers seem to find that very difficult but hey, fairness and analysis and all that.

Is there some especial reason why it's unfair to make disparaging remarks about Greeks who voted for Golden Dawn?

No. Don't be silly. But they aren't "Greeks", they are Greeks who have done something specific.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

the Left should support the anti-austerity far right in certain strategic situations.

Tweed, you have lost me now.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

@Nathan: It's not clear to whom he was referring with his [batmacumba] comments about 'retarded votes'. I hope it is the neonazis but I can't be sure, look at attitudes the likes of Franzl have constantly displayed in threads on this issue to see this.

the Left should support the anti-austerity far right in certain strategic situations.

Tweed, you have lost me now.

the point is to break out of the grip of the international financial institutions: THE crucial plank shared by the far right and Left (Syriza, KKE insofar as it has an actual platform, and GD).  then once that is done, the vacuum is created and we can slug it out on the streets.

Do I really need to explain why this is a terrible idea?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Can we at least go a few minutes without marking disparaging remarks about Greeks? I know some forumers seem to find that very difficult but hey, fairness and analysis and all that.

No.  My grandparents who hailed from Greece just had their burning desire to get the hell out of there asap when they were young, validated.

That was validated a long time ago. Though America should share some responsibility in that.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

@Nathan: It's not clear to whom he was referring with his [batmacumba] comments about 'retarded votes'. I hope it is the neonazis but I can't be sure, look at attitudes the likes of Franzl have constantly displayed in threads on this issue to see this.

the Left should support the anti-austerity far right in certain strategic situations.

Tweed, you have lost me now.

the point is to break out of the grip of the international financial institutions: THE crucial plank shared by the far right and Left (Syriza, KKE insofar as it has an actual platform, and GD).  then once that is done, the vacuum is created and we can slug it out on the streets.

Do I really need to explain why this is a terrible idea?

Now I'm confused - What are you complaining about? I simply stated that I believe the Euro has caused a great deal of harm, especially evidenced by the fact that 7% of Greeks have been lured into voting for open national socialists. I find it ironic that the currency that was supposed to enhance freedom and peace in Europe has lead to consequences such as this.

Do you disagree with this?

No. However, I would not say the problem has just been the euro.

But the tones of your remarks have had all the hallmarks of smugness and a sense of superiority. At least, to me.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E4AXJx3IzdY

Well... that was, ehm, interesting.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Ive noticed the North American press is quite biased in their coverage European elections.

You have only noticed this now?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

All available options are clearly terrible. That is what needs to be said first and foremost.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

What's greek for Iatrogenesis?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

What's greek for Iatrogenesis?

Probably iatrogenesis.

I think you missed my point there.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I was just listening to the BBC world news program that NPR has sometimes and there was someone speaking for SYRIZA. He was saying that by threating to default within the Euro  unless their demands were met they were fighting for the 99% of Europeans and that the whole European project couldn't possibly survive without Greece. When the guy saying that the people of Europe were thanking Greece for theatening to default I started yelling at my radio.

Do the Greeks really believe that they are winning friends right now? If they turn out to be right about being able to hold Europe hostage for better terms I'd be in shock.

SYRIZA = Greece?

Tbh, "Greece" hasn't been winning much friends from the start of this whole crisis dealey. But neither have the other states involved indicated much desire to be friends with it.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I hope ND/PASOK can win enough for a majority...

I hope SYRIZA/DIMAR can win enough for a majority.  

That won't matter as DIMAR don't want to work with SYRIZA.

The most likely outcome should SYRIZA be the largest party is yet another deadlock actually (even if the KKE finally decide to drop their wearing sectarianism).

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I hope ND/PASOK can win enough for a majority...

I hope SYRIZA/DIMAR can win enough for a majority.  

That won't matter as DIMAR don't want to work with SYRIZA.

The most likely outcome should SYRIZA be the largest party is yet another deadlock actually (even if the KKE finally decide to drop their wearing sectarianism).

Really?  I just thought they want guarantees for staying in the Eurozone.  And that Greece won't default. 

Exactly.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

There is no such thing as "anti-austerity," except as a lie, a dream. The pot at the end of the rainbow to that one is north of the Alps.

The pot was already given over at very low interest rates years earlier and the leprechauns now want it back and they are very, very persistent.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

There is no such thing as "anti-austerity," except as a lie, a dream. The pot at the end of the rainbow to that one is north of the Alps.

The pot was already given over at very low interest rates years earlier and the leprechauns now want it back and they are very, very persistent.

Just give it to them - not what they had but enough to prevent disaster from occurring. The well-being of one's neighbor is one's well-being, as well, to some extent. I would say the same about post WWI reparations as well.

That's not enough. And it is a bit late in the day to speak of disaster not occurring - it has already happened, it just hasn't made itself clear yet in all its manifestations.

You are right of course. But try telling that to Franzl and the rest of "we all need to be modern" fetishists. Or the Axel-Springer group for that matter.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Shouldn't some results be in by now?  It's past 2 in the morning in Greece. 

The election is tomorrow.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Oh.  Lol sorry I'd assumed it would be today (since they normally vote on Sunday in Europe).

They do. Today is Saturday.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

As expected really... most surprising thing is that XA's vote more or less held steady.

See you in this thread again in six months time.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Those of you who think German tax payers should pay for the rest of Europe without complaining or demanding anything in return...what principle is that based on?

If you've wasted all your money you can't really expect to get more with no questions asked.

European unity! And a good portion of jealousy.

If that's what "European unity" and "economic integration" is supposed to mean (i.e. some countries work hard to develop and maintain prosperous economies while other countries just waste their money and demand to be supported by the more prosperous members of the European Union) this is a scary.

The problem is that that is already what has happened without anyone really realizing it or intending it to be the case.