Greece 2012

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The majority bonus and whatever in the world Italy's system is technically called are probably the most flagrantly absurd electoral systems going right now, at least on paper. Straight-out just allocating blocks of seats to whoever got the most votes just rubs me the wrong way.


One-day-newer poll:

ND 29.3%
PASOK 17.1%
KKE 13.6%
SYRIZA 10.7%
LAOS 9.2%
DIMAR 5.9%
Greens 5.8%
DISY 2.5%
Others 5.9%

By my very rough calculations that comes out to:

ND 123
PASOK 49
KKE 39
SYRIZA 30
LAOS 26
DIMAR 17
Greens 16

Bear in mind that with the 3% election threshold DISY misses out on representation with these numbers. Isn't it sad, DISY?

United Left:

Left 126
ND 83
PASOK 49
LAOS 26
Greens 16

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

There is a logic to it though - ensuring the winner has a thumping majority that can take some defections but the loser (and especially the losing side's lead personnel) cannot be locked out of the council/parliament/whatever, as can happen under fptp systems.

I understand the logic behind it but I still think it's chimerical in...well, let's just say a way that doesn't appeal to me.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Interesting. I had been wondering what the significance of green was. I knew about the Blue and Green chariot teams in Rome and Byzantium, but I hadn't connected the two.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What are the chances we see ND go below 20%?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

'Not in Parl/mnt' is the winning 'party' now.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The thought that 435 thousand of my compatriots voted the Neo-Nazis is enough to give me a depression.
 

That's truly frightening that the wonderful, peace creating Euro has allowed national socialists to enter a European parliament again.

Would it be banal of me to reflect that currencies, being abstractions, can't vote.

That's true, but exactly by being abstractions they can influence society and politics much more than us, physical beings.

Yes, but so do many other things...

And which other boosted utterly-retarded votes in Greece?

Can we at least go a few minutes without marking disparaging remarks about Greeks? I know some forumers seem to find that very difficult but hey, fairness and analysis and all that.

Is there some especial reason why it's unfair to make disparaging remarks about Greeks who voted for Golden Dawn?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The thought that 435 thousand of my compatriots voted the Neo-Nazis is enough to give me a depression.
 

That's truly frightening that the wonderful, peace creating Euro has allowed national socialists to enter a European parliament again.

Would it be banal of me to reflect that currencies, being abstractions, can't vote.

That's true, but exactly by being abstractions they can influence society and politics much more than us, physical beings.

Yes, but so do many other things...

And which other boosted utterly-retarded votes in Greece?

Can we at least go a few minutes without marking disparaging remarks about Greeks? I know some forumers seem to find that very difficult but hey, fairness and analysis and all that.

Is there some especial reason why it's unfair to make disparaging remarks about Greeks who voted for Golden Dawn?

No. Don't be silly. But they aren't "Greeks", they are Greeks who have done something specific.

It was the votes that were described as utterly-retarded.

the Left should support the anti-austerity far right in certain strategic situations.

Nope. Not when there are better options available, which is very, very, very seldom NOT the case.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

the Left should support the anti-austerity far right in certain strategic situations.

Tweed, you have lost me now.

the point is to break out of the grip of the international financial institutions: THE crucial plank shared by the far right and Left (Syriza, KKE insofar as it has an actual platform, and GD).  then once that is done, the vacuum is created and we can slug it out on the streets.

The problem is I'm not confident in the chances at that point. The far right seems a lot more brutal.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

An anti-austerity coalition would have to include either one of the two 'system' parties or the Nazis, and one including the Nazis would have a majority of 2 seats, unless Tsipras thinks a few ND or PASOK MPs can be lured away. A couple dozen defections would keep the Nazis out but I'm not sure if anybody considers that at all likely or not.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Ive noticed the North American press is quite biased in their coverage European elections.

It sucks, but at least they're biased for the good guys...

'Good' guys? Surely you jest.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The South is persecuted once again.

Phil, what are your thoughts on Giuseppe Garibaldi?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The South is persecuted once again.

Phil, what are your thoughts on Giuseppe Garibaldi?

Love him, of course. I'm proud of my southern roots and don't like when others beat up on the South but I obviously support Italian nationalism.

Same here. I have ancestors from the Two Sicilies and ancestors from Milan and I'm proud of my roots with both sets, for some similar and some different reasons.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Welcome!

You can just post the URL and we can copypaste it into our address bars, I think.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

That's kind of disappointing. Things right now could turn out two ways for SYRIZA, I think.

Either they'll refuse to work with PASOK, and partake in left-wing policy like that of Evo Morales in Bolivia or Hugo Chavez in Venezuela (probably not), or they'll fall into coalitionism with PASOK and prove themselves to just be another social democratic party no better than PASOK.

They might be somewhat hamstrung by the EU in the former eventuality. Then again, the EU might kick them out, in practice if not in name, anyway.

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I don't think there's much danger of that.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I don't think there's much danger of that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_1928
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_1930

Nazis must be treated like the dangerous threat they are.

I meant in terms of no polling indicating it.

Of course, they still need to be campaigned strongly against. And if they were to end up winning more seats it would be a cause for serious concern no matter whether or not they still 'seemed relatively minor'.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It's also XA in Greek and GD in English so I don't know where XD is coming from.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Consider that if I remember correctly the 'radical' parties in general slightly underpolled at the last election, and there wasn't a terribly big expectation that ND would slip below 20%.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Whats the reporting pattern like in Greece? Do the left wing areas come in later than the right wing ones?

Last time I think the rural areas came in for the most part before the cities and Athens came in last, but I could be misremembering.