Greece 2012

[Peter the Lefty]

How is it that PASOK is winning back dissatisfied voters while led by the guy that was FINANCE MINISTER throughout the entire term (and still is)? 

[Peter the Lefty]

Well I'm hoping for a PASOK-ND-KKE-SYRIZA-DIMAR-Greens coalition.

But I think I'm optimistic at that

I'm hoping that SYRIZA will overtake PASOK (I was hoping that DIMAR would back in February and March, but that hasn't worked out).  Then it could hopefully overtake ND. 
I'd then hope for a SYRIZA-KKE-DIMAR-Greens coalition. 

Even more optimistic.

[Peter the Lefty]

one of last polls :

01-ND........................21.5% (liberal)
02-PASOK..................14% (social-liberal)
03-SYRISA.................13% (radical left)
04-ANEL....................11% (national-conservative)
05-KKE......................11% (communist)
06-DIMAR....................9.5% (social-liberal)
07-XA..........................5.5% (nazi)
08-OP.........................3.5% (green)
09-LAOS.....................3% (nationalist)
10-DISY.......................2% (liberal)
11-ANTARSYA..............1% (?est.)(liberal)
12-DRASI....................1% (?est.)(liberal)
13-EPAM.....................1% (?) (no information. on their site, they speak about FYROM, but, can't determine his political ideology)

PASOK has always been considered socialist/social democratic, but if we're going to call them what they really are, than you may as well call them neo-liberal.  But DIMAR is socialist/social democratic rather than left-liberal, no?

[Peter the Lefty]

bourgeois press fail: CNBC refers to Tsipras as 'Greek Communist leader'

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47323787

Forbes referred to him as "bailout-hater."  The article's title was "Bailout-Hater Tsipras Now Trying to Form Government in Greece." (they could've at least said something more professional like "Bailout Opponent" or "Anti-Bailout Leftist.")  It also called his rhetoric "violent."  And of course, the last paragraph was all about how markets are reacting negatively. 

[Peter the Lefty]

Sounds like either Venizelos totally capitulated, or Kouvelis just wants to be PM so badly that he's willing to sacrifice all principles (and his party's fortunes) so he can be PM for even just 2 years (or less, depending on how long the government actually lasts).  If anything, it sounds like it's probably the later (do really think PASOK and ND would backtrack on all the austerity, which he set as a condition for joining?)  If I were Greek and a DIMAR voter (which I ideologically would be, though I might have tactically voted for SYRIZA), I'd be EXTREMELY pissed off right now.  

[Peter the Lefty]

Kouvelis just said that he's not joining ND or PASOK it government.  I guess it probably was just Venizelos trying to pressure him.

[Peter the Lefty]

Yeah, that meanie doesn't want to give me his money...guess I should hold a gun to his head. Right, Antonio?

More like, I'm starving (and penniless) because all of my money (and food) got thrown away by my drunken partner, as someone with access to my money.  A multi-millionaire landlord is walking down the street and sees me, frail, and begging for food, and he agrees to buy me a single meal as long as I pay for a lot of it by selling all of my clothes and shoes, and whatever bare essentials I have left, on a cold, winter day, to prove my "seriousness" about paying for it. 
So I'm angry that he wouldn't have more sympathy and a desire to help.  But of course, it's mainly because he lives in the same neighborhood and the value of his property (apartment buildings) is lowered by the sight of me, a frail, starving beggar, that he's actually bothering to do anything at all. 

That is a more accurate description of what Greeks are enduring at the hands of the Germans.  And I apologize in advance if I offend you or anyone else, but god, you Germans, why does it seem so hard for you to feel any compassion at all?  I expect much of this paragraph to be edited out, I know, but I mean it seriously.  I know I'm talking generally here, and I know there are plenty of exceptions but even considering the experience of hyper-inflation, why do Germans seem like the second most heartless people in the western world (with only us Americans being worse)?

[Peter the Lefty]

Let's hope for a SYRIZA-ANEL-DIMAR coalition.  SYRIZA-DIMAR seems unlikely at this point, but either way, it be the perfect middle finger to Merkel (let's hope Hollande sides with Greece if this government is the case.)

[Peter the Lefty]

Why does PASOK even exist now, let alone still obtain a respectable share? Surely those who want EU-backed austerity can just vote ND, and the old days of party patronage must be over for good.

PASOK still has some strongholds where patronage no doubt works (like Crete), and honestly will probably surge back into government if either ND or SYRIZA messes up after taking over.

How could they possibly win back votes in other places? 

[Peter the Lefty]

Surley this  must mean the end to Golden Dawn's time in parliament?

Well, the thing is, if a person is actually a horrible enough human being to find it in themselves to vote for a neo-nazi party, than would they actually be bothered by something like this?

[Peter the Lefty]

I've read rumours lately that recent opinion polls (which haven't been published) show ND ahead.  Hope the election doesn't end up like that. 

[Peter the Lefty]

What I'm hoping is that maybe there's been a "shy SYRIZA" factor here.  For any Greeks on this board, are there any people who might be somewhat embarrassed to say that they want to vote for SYRIZA, given the way it's being demonized as a party that will lead to a "Grexit?" 

[Peter the Lefty]

Any results yet?  This board seems awfully quiet for election day.

[Peter the Lefty]

I hope ND/PASOK can win enough for a majority...

I hope SYRIZA/DIMAR can win enough for a majority. 

[Peter the Lefty]

I hope ND/PASOK can win enough for a majority...

I hope SYRIZA/DIMAR can win enough for a majority.  

That won't matter as DIMAR don't want to work with SYRIZA.

The most likely outcome should SYRIZA be the largest party is yet another deadlock actually (even if the KKE finally decide to drop their wearing sectarianism).

Really?  I just thought they want guarantees for staying in the Eurozone.  And that Greece won't default. 

[Peter the Lefty]

Oh.  That's what you mean.  Well, that's why I'm hoping for a SYRIZA/DIMAR government.  Anti-austerity, but still some fiscal/Euro competence.  But if DIMAR won't opt for SYRIZA, then my hope: SYRIZA majority! 

[Peter the Lefty]

Shouldn't some results be in by now?  It's past 2 in the morning in Greece. 

[Peter the Lefty]

Oh.  Lol sorry I'd assumed it would be today (since they normally vote on Sunday in Europe).

[Peter the Lefty]

Oh.  Lol sorry I'd assumed it would be today (since they normally vote on Sunday in Europe).

They do. Today is Saturday.

Darn it!  I'm really discombobulated right now.  (slept until 1 today, so I'm kinda in that state where I slept so long that it's like I didn't sleep enough).

[Peter the Lefty]

Greece's Euro victory will push SYRIZA over the line.

I hope you're right.  Imagine what it'll be like if they face Germany in the quarterfinal five days from now (since it's officially Sunday now where I am...yay).  Eesh.  

[Peter the Lefty]

When can we expect the exit polls again ?

8pm Athens time (which would be 7 here) ?

They close at 7 pm Athens time which is 6 pm where you are, and 12 pm where I am.  Oh boy, I'll have a tense afternoon.

[Peter the Lefty]

Wow.  I was right.  This will be a tense afternoon.

[Peter the Lefty]

What has ANEL said about coalitions? I'm trying to work out what SYRIZA's options will be if it wins.

According to Wikipedia, ANEL says that any coalition it joins will have to be "center-right" and that it'll have to tear up the memorandum.  So basically they're saying that they won't be taking part in any government.  

[Peter the Lefty]

Holy $h*t, what what the f--k have the PASOK folks been smoking?  Are they honestly hoping to provoke new elections?

[Peter the Lefty]

It would be nice if someone would actually step up to the plate in that country and not constantly try to shift the burden to someone else.

It is sad the way the Greek politicians' inability to step up is probably giving the Germans more reason to think that Greeks are just a bunch of lazy slackers.