GET OVER IT REPUBLICANS, ROSSI LOST

[So the Heroes Fall]

hey, you did it to us for 4 years about Gore, now we can do it back. Fun, ain't it?

[A18]

Considering I don't live in Washington, it doesn't have quite the same affect.

[J. J.]

hey, you did it to us for 4 years about Gore, now we can do it back. Fun, ain't it?

I'd have to see some real evidence that those were not valid votes or that valid votes were not counted before I complained.

"We" didn't do it to you so I see no reason to complain now.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Well I'm not calling for a re-vote and most of the Republicans I've talked to say Rossi should concede, so I'm not exactly sure what we need to get over.

[Nym90]

hey, you did it to us for 4 years about Gore, now we can do it back. Fun, ain't it?

I'd have to see some real evidence that those were not valid votes or that valid votes were not counted before I complained.

"We" didn't do it to you so I see no reason to complain now.

Thank you. Nice to see some intellectual honesty. You are a great guy, J.J.

Also, I agree with you about calling everybody of a certain political party "we" or "you". There's a lot of individuality within parties; it's wrong to accuse someone of doing something just because a fellow party member did it.

[The Duke]

Rossi won, but he doesn't get to be Governor.  Oh well, Washington's loss.  Ultimately, it will also tarnish the state Democratic Party to have "found" all these King County votes and Rossi can have almost any job he wants in that state now.  Look out Senator Patty "Osama Mama" Murray.

[Akno21]

Rossi won, but he doesn't get to be Governor.  Oh well, Washington's loss.  Ultimately, it will also tarnish the state Democratic Party to have "found" all these King County votes and Rossi can have almost any job he wants in that state now.  Look out Senator Patty "Osama Mama" Murray.

She's not up until 2010. Do you mean Cantwell?

[The Duke]

Rossi won, but he doesn't get to be Governor.  Oh well, Washington's loss.  Ultimately, it will also tarnish the state Democratic Party to have "found" all these King County votes and Rossi can have almost any job he wants in that state now.  Look out Senator Patty "Osama Mama" Murray.

She's not up until 2010. Do you mean Cantwell?

I named Murray because she is more vulnerable, seeing as she praised bin Laden.

[Akno21]

Rossi won, but he doesn't get to be Governor.  Oh well, Washington's loss.  Ultimately, it will also tarnish the state Democratic Party to have "found" all these King County votes and Rossi can have almost any job he wants in that state now.  Look out Senator Patty "Osama Mama" Murray.

She's not up until 2010. Do you mean Cantwell?

I named Murray because she is more vulnerable, seeing as she praised bin Laden.

It didn't cost her this time did it?

[Sam Spade]

Nethercutt was perhaps the worst Senate candidate the Republicans ran in the country (other than Alan Keyes, of course).  Not a good comparison.

[Akno21]

Nethercutt was perhaps the worst Senate candidate the Republicans ran in the country (other than Alan Keyes, of course).  Not a good comparison.

You've got a point, but then 6 years is a long time. Her comments may have drifted out of the public memory by then.

On a side note, do you have the whole context of those Osama comments, I would like to see it?

[Grad Students are the Worst]

A few comments:

hey, you did it to us for 4 years about Gore, now we can do it back. Fun, ain't it?

Anyone who took four years to get over Gore has attachment issues. When all hope is lost, there is no sense in dwelling in the past.

hey, you did it to us for 4 years about Gore, now we can do it back. Fun, ain't it?

I'd have to see some real evidence that those were not valid votes or that valid votes were not counted before I complained.

"We" didn't do it to you so I see no reason to complain now.

I've been wanting to find opportunity to say this for a while, J. J., but you are among my favorite members of this forum. You are a conservative (or maybe not on social issues - whatever) but rail against those of your idealogy who make no sense. That is very cool of you.

Rossi won, but he doesn't get to be Governor.  Oh well, Washington's loss.  Ultimately, it will also tarnish the state Democratic Party to have "found" all these King County votes and Rossi can have almost any job he wants in that state now.  Look out Senator Patty "Osama Mama" Murray.

Not much to reply to in this post. I'm surprised, John, that you'd make a post like this without explaining yourself. I know of very few people who watch this election closely and are convinced of a Rossi win.

Nethercutt was perhaps the worst Senate candidate the Republicans ran in the country (other than Alan Keyes, of course).  Not a good comparison.

Actually, you are very much incorrect here. It's funny - I thought Nethercutt would give Murray a run for her money. Despite Nethercutt's "Osama" ad,  the electorate was little-affected. Murray did better among Republicans (9%) than Nethercutt among Democrats (5%) and Murray slaughtered Nethercutt for the independent vote (57%-41%). The same goes for ideaologies: Murray gets more conservatives (17%) than Nethercutt liberals (8%). Murray got the moderates 63%-36%.

Murray also had a good perception at the end. Murray was seen as the better candidate in the fields of intelligence (91%), bringing change (87%), and caring about people (75%). Nethercutt had a better one, though: he won the votes of those who thought it most important that the candidate be honest/trustworthy (57%), a strong leader (72%), and take clear stands on issues (70%). He also won the usual auto-Republican category of religious faith (86%).

Nethercutt ran a great campaign. However, at the end, he began to become annoying. When he didn't poll well, he went into attack mode. Then he went into creepy family guy mode and began to look like an Eggland's Best commercial - ads with his wife featuring "outtakes."

By the way, the Osama bin Laden comment was a simplification, but made in an appropriate context: a speech about why we have perception problems in the Middle East. She was not saying we should be more like him. Investigators call the remark mostly accurate, but still way too simplistic. I agree. She shouldn't have said it. It wasn't a travesty.

I know her personally and she is a leftist. She's a nice person, though, and does not deserve to be called a terrorist.

[The Duke]

Rossi won, but he doesn't get to be Governor.  Oh well, Washington's loss.  Ultimately, it will also tarnish the state Democratic Party to have "found" all these King County votes and Rossi can have almost any job he wants in that state now.  Look out Senator Patty "Osama Mama" Murray.

She's not up until 2010. Do you mean Cantwell?

I named Murray because she is more vulnerable, seeing as she praised bin Laden.

It didn't cost her this time did it?

Congratulations Washington!  You're officially a third world country!

Fraudulent elections and preference for Osama over Bush.  I can't believe Democrats are actually proud that Murray survived.

Rossi won, but he doesn't get to be Governor.  Oh well, Washington's loss.  Ultimately, it will also tarnish the state Democratic Party to have "found" all these King County votes and Rossi can have almost any job he wants in that state now.  Look out Senator Patty "Osama Mama" Murray.

Not much to reply to in this post. I'm surprised, John, that you'd make a post like this without explaining yourself. I know of very few people who watch this election closely and are convinced of a Rossi win.

My explaination is pretty simple.  We won, you didn't like the outcome, so you counted again.  You still didn't win, so you bought a recount and you found enough votes to "win".  Never mind the obvious problem we should all have with a political party being allowed to have as many recounts as it is willing to buy, the alleged Governor, Ms. Gregoire, won on what appear outwardly to be fraudulent votes.

Rossi was the winner of the count and the recount.  He was certified as legitimate.  Now the state expects me to accept that their first two CERTIFIED counts were wrong, and this certification invalidates them?  Given the obvious shenanigans in King county?

If you know few people who are convinced Rossi won, then you must not know many Republicans, because as I said before, he was twice certified as the winner by the Secretary of State.  Its life, sometimes you get cheated and you have to live with it, and if the GOP had been more aware, they could have pre-empted this kind of fraud, but don't pretend that this was all on the up and up.

[J. J.]

Congratulations Washington!  You're officially a third world country!

Fraudulent elections and preference for Osama over Bush.  I can't believe Democrats are actually proud that Murray survived.

Before we go screaming "fraud," let's let the investigation process play itself out.  For all I know, Rossi lost fair and square.  Wait for the evidence and, if it appears that there are enough irregularities to thow the election, I'll be screaming "fraud" as well.

[ATFFL]

Congratulations Washington!  You're officially a third world country!

Fraudulent elections and preference for Osama over Bush.  I can't believe Democrats are actually proud that Murray survived.

Before we go screaming "fraud," let's let the investigation process play itself out.  For all I know, Rossi lost fair and square.  Wait for the evidence and, if it appears that there are enough irregularities to thow the election, I'll be screaming "fraud" as well.

I'm into calling it fraud now that I have a personal connection to it.  A friend of mine has been going to school in WA for 6 years now.  Never registered to vote out there because he always planned on moving back to NY when done.  He voted by absentee every year from his parent's address on Long Island.

He just found out that he was registered to vote in King County Washington and he voted absentee there this year.

[Sam Spade]

Congratulations Washington!  You're officially a third world country!

Fraudulent elections and preference for Osama over Bush.  I can't believe Democrats are actually proud that Murray survived.

Before we go screaming "fraud," let's let the investigation process play itself out.  For all I know, Rossi lost fair and square.  Wait for the evidence and, if it appears that there are enough irregularities to thow the election, I'll be screaming "fraud" as well.

I'm into calling it fraud now that I have a personal connection to it.  A friend of mine has been going to school in WA for 6 years now.  Never registered to vote out there because he always planned on moving back to NY when done.  He voted by absentee every year from his parent's address on Long Island.

He just found out that he was registered to vote in King County Washington and he voted absentee there this year.

hehe, that's proof if I ever heard of it. 

[Grad Students are the Worst]

Rossi won, but he doesn't get to be Governor.  Oh well, Washington's loss.  Ultimately, it will also tarnish the state Democratic Party to have "found" all these King County votes and Rossi can have almost any job he wants in that state now.  Look out Senator Patty "Osama Mama" Murray.

Not much to reply to in this post. I'm surprised, John, that you'd make a post like this without explaining yourself. I know of very few people who watch this election closely and are convinced of a Rossi win.

My explaination is pretty simple.  We won, you didn't like the outcome, so you counted again.  You still didn't win, so you bought a recount and you found enough votes to "win".  Never mind the obvious problem we should all have with a political party being allowed to have as many recounts as it is willing to buy, the alleged Governor, Ms. Gregoire, won on what appear outwardly to be fraudulent votes.

Actually, Mr. Ford, it is you who oversimplify.

State law mandated the first count. Before that count, both parties agreed on a second, hand recount. That was supposed to be the final one.

Rossi was the winner of the count and the recount.  He was certified as legitimate.  Now the state expects me to accept that their first two CERTIFIED counts were wrong, and this certification invalidates them?  Given the obvious shenanigans in King county?

Yes, actually. And no matter how obvious they may be, it's not a valid precedent for a revote. It's unfortunate, and I agree that no one really won, but Rossi needs to move on from this. I'm very pissed, too.

If you know few people who are convinced Rossi won, then you must not know many Republicans, because as I said before, he was twice certified as the winner by the Secretary of State.  Its life, sometimes you get cheated and you have to live with it, and if the GOP had been more aware, they could have pre-empted this kind of fraud, but don't pretend that this was all on the up and up.

I will cut you slack because overall it seems pretty obvious you are not really following this very, very closely (otherwise you'd know about the recount rules). What you say is fundamentally true, and what a lot of Washingtonians think, including me - the election was flawed. However, the subsequent process that resulted in a Gregoire win was by the numbers, although I don't love those numbers.

[J. J.]

Congratulations Washington!  You're officially a third world country!

Fraudulent elections and preference for Osama over Bush.  I can't believe Democrats are actually proud that Murray survived.

Before we go screaming "fraud," let's let the investigation process play itself out.  For all I know, Rossi lost fair and square.  Wait for the evidence and, if it appears that there are enough irregularities to thow the election, I'll be screaming "fraud" as well.

I'm into calling it fraud now that I have a personal connection to it.  A friend of mine has been going to school in WA for 6 years now.  Never registered to vote out there because he always planned on moving back to NY when done.  He voted by absentee every year from his parent's address on Long Island.

He just found out that he was registered to vote in King County Washington and he voted absentee there this year.

Okay, find another 126 (there were a few like that) and you might have a case.

[J. J.]

Rossi was the winner of the count and the recount.  He was certified as legitimate.  Now the state expects me to accept that their first two CERTIFIED counts were wrong, and this certification invalidates them?  Given the obvious shenanigans in King county?

Yes, actually. And no matter how obvious they may be, it's not a valid precedent for a revote. It's unfortunate, and I agree that no one really won, but Rossi needs to move on from this. I'm very pissed, too.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this point, but only as a matter of law.  CARLHAYDEN, cited precedent, from WA, where the courts have ordered revotes.  Now, if applicable to the governor's race (these are sometimes covered by separate constitutional provisions) and if it can be shown that 129 votes were counted that were from illegal voters, a revote might be legitimate.

Just for the record, I'm not overjoyed that this is the precedent, but it appears to be legitimate, from what I can tell over the Internet.

I have yet to see any evidence that 129 illegal voters voted.

[Grad Students are the Worst]

Rossi was the winner of the count and the recount.  He was certified as legitimate.  Now the state expects me to accept that their first two CERTIFIED counts were wrong, and this certification invalidates them?  Given the obvious shenanigans in King county?

Yes, actually. And no matter how obvious they may be, it's not a valid precedent for a revote. It's unfortunate, and I agree that no one really won, but Rossi needs to move on from this. I'm very pissed, too.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this point, but only as a matter of law.  CARLHAYDEN, cited precedent, from WA, where the courts have ordered revotes.  Now, if applicable to the governor's race (these are sometimes covered by separate constitutional provisions) and if it can be shown that 129 votes were counted that were from illegal voters, a revote might be legitimate.

Just for the record, I'm not overjoyed that this is the precedent, but it appears to be legitimate, from what I can tell over the Internet.

I have yet to see any evidence that 129 illegal voters voted.

I have seen the very opposite (an RFC or something of that sort?), too. This is all so confusing.

[The Duke]

Alcon,

If you're following this as closely as you say you have, then you are lying about one point.  You present Rossi as a willing participant in the second recount.  He had this to say about the prospect of a second recount:

"This really is sad and desperate," he said. "How much do they want to put the voters of Washington through? We were elected and certified twice. I have faith in voters; Christine Gregoire has faith in lawyers."

Alcon, you are so full of crap to say that Rossi happily went along with the recount.

I am well aware of the rule stipulating a second reocunt, I am also aware that Rossi won.  We won two out fo three, in most things that's good enough.  It seems that you, however, are not at all aware that this is in fact precedent for a re-vote, and that Washington has laws allowing for exactly this phenomenon.  And I have not asked for a re-vote by the way, so don't put words in my mouth saying I did.  I am simply asking for what is fair: For Dino Rossi, the rightful Governor of Washington, to be allowed to assume the office.  No revote is necessary, though it is allowed.

[J. J.]

I have seen the very opposite (an RFC or something of that sort?), too. This is all so confusing.

Alcon, here is a link to the text of the decision:

http://www.mrsc.org/mc/courts/supreme/085wn2d/085wn2d0629.htm

Yes, I didn't expect it either, but it's here.  Look, I have the same problem with the revote that you, and a number of others, have, but it appears to be a possibly remedy. 

Of course, that assumes that 129 ballots can be shown to have been cast by illegal voters; I am not there yet.

[The Duke]

I have seen the very opposite (an RFC or something of that sort?), too. This is all so confusing.

That John Ford should pay more attention to the story, huh?

[J. J.]

I am simply asking for what is fair: For Dino Rossi, the rightful Governor of Washington, to be allowed to assume the office.  No revote is necessary, though it is allowed.

Show me 130* illegally cast votes and I might agree with you.



*129 would mean a potential tie.

[The Duke]

I am simply asking for what is fair: For Dino Rossi, the rightful Governor of Washington, to be allowed to assume the office.  No revote is necessary, though it is allowed.

Show me 130* illegally cast votes and I might agree with you.



*129 would mean a potential tie.

This from the Wall Street Journal:

"Democrat Christine Gregoire will be sworn in as Washington's Governor today, possibly thanks to voters such as Mary Coffey, James Courneya and Rosalie Simpson. Why do we mention them in particular? Because, as the Seattle Post-Intelligencer recently reported, they're all dead--and have been since well before the first absentee ballots were even mailed out.

Revelations of the formerly living casting ballots in elections isn't new to American politics, although it's something most of us thought was a relic of the late Richard Daley's Chicago. But this isn't the only jaw-dropper to have come out of Washington's gubernatorial race, which Ms. Gregoire claims to have won--on a third recount, by 129 votes--over Republican Dino Rossi. Now Mr. Rossi is contesting the result in state court, hoping a judge will find enough evidence of fraud or incompetence to order a revote, a prospect Ms. Gregoire calls "absolutely ludicrous."

Mr. Rossi certainly has a mountain of evidence on his side. In December, officials in King County, which includes Seattle, discovered 573 "erroneously rejected" absentee ballots, plus another 150 uncounted ones that showed up in a South Seattle warehouse. There were reports that hundreds of voters were registered in storage rental facilities and private mailboxes, that felons had voted, and that military ballots were sent out too late to be counted. Then we learned that several hundred provisional ballots had simply been fed into voting machines, making it impossible to authenticate their legality. Now it turns out the number of votes cast in King County exceeds the total number of voters by about 1,800."