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Author Topic: Why do Americans believe in God despite all the evidence?????  (Read 3040 times)
BlondewithaBrain
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« on: December 21, 2011, 09:40:34 am »
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The invention of God was the humans first attempt of Philosophy. It was the original attempt to try to understand where the universe came from and how we got here. Today, we now know far more through evidence of the origins of the universe and how we got here. Our own DNA provides evidence that we ALL originated from Africa. This in one way defeats racism and also creationism.

Professor Weinberg's book the first three minutes of the big bang plus work from Stephen Hawking on time and space along with other great physicists has made the scientific world pretty much certain that the big bang was not some great plan to ensure that we are all here today. I'm pretty certain that the big bang was not created so we could be talking online today or you would suffer a flat tyre on the way to work. Are you really so ignorant or is the word arrogant that the big bang was all done just so you could be here and tested? The universe is still growing. Earth is the size of one particle in the sahara dessert. We are irrelevant. Evolution is a billion year project.

Religion poisons our society. It divides us and it allows us to lie to each other as people. We continue to have people fooling us that we surrender to wishful thinking. We dont enquire or use evidence to survive and prosper. Cancer is not a disease given by God its a living organism that uses our body as a host. The most recent attack from the religious groups was stem cell research. There is also the offensive attack from religious groups who say where would your morality be if there was no God? People do not rape, steal or murder people because they believe in a divine power. The religious tribe say what about stalin he didnt believe in God, but Russia is one of the most religious countries in the world and the people are extremely superstitous. Stalin used the social fabric for his own purposes and tried to replace the virgin mary as an icon. Hence the pictures of dictators you see. Just like Jesus Christ. We as outsiders can see the delusion, but the people who worship stalin and jesus in their icons cannot. Dictators prospered in societies where education was weak and religion strong.

Religion also goes against everything Americans value; the idea to be a free people. Religious people in some sharpe of form are surrending themselves to a higher power wishing for them to be slaves. They say they serve God and Jesus Christ and follow the bible but in fact they have an innate desire to be told what to do. Brutal leaders have used this to prosper and build empires.

People who believe in God have a desire to be slaves. Do you really believe that high above you there is a celestrial body watching over you since the day you were born, following your every movements, could provoke your mind by telling you what decision to make when uncertain. Tell me is this the absolute definition of dictatorship. Do you really believe the big bang was the purpose of watching and following you to ensure you were a good boy/girl?

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Franzl
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 09:51:20 am »
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Well even ignoring the content of your rant...only Americans believe in God?
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 10:01:30 am »
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"God" and "evidence" are two words which can never be associated.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

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BlondewithaBrain
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 10:02:42 am »
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Well even ignoring the content of your rant...only Americans believe in God?

care to debate anything that was written. or did the word god create your spam response.
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#Ready4Nixon
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 10:16:18 am »
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You're funny, ya know that?
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 10:31:14 am »
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"God" and "evidence" are two words which can never be associated.
Until it is quite evident.. At which point, we're f**ked.
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 10:35:32 am »
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Well even ignoring the content of your rant...only Americans believe in God?

care to debate anything that was written. or did the word god create your spam response.

I'm not interested in a "debate" about this...merely wondering why you assume that solely Americans believe in what you believe to be stupid.
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 10:56:12 am »
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"God" and "evidence" are two words which can never be associated.
Until it is quite evident.. At which point, we're f**ked.

What do you mean ? I was merely pointing that rational evidence can never demonstrate the existence or non-existence of God.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2011, 11:07:22 am »
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While it's certainly true that a belief in God is far from confined to the U.S. (there are many people who believe in God everywhere), it's also true that the percentage of people who believe is much higher in the U.S. than in most European countries.  In most surveys, more than 90 percent of Americans polled say they believe in God, making a belief in God one of the very few things that more than 90 percent of the population agrees on.  In a 2005 study, the only European countries with this high a percentage of believers were Turkey and Malta.  In one survey, only 4 percent of Americans claimed to be atheists, while nearly one third (31 percent) of the French said they were.  

So instead of asking why Americans believe in God, a better question would be: "Why is a belief in God so overwhemingly held in the U.S., when in many other Western countries this belief is far from unanimous?"
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2011, 11:41:30 am »
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Is there anyone more verbose than a proselytizing atheist?
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 01:15:38 pm »
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"Our own DNA provides evidence that we ALL originated from Africa. This in one way defeats racism and also creationism."

Well first off, being from one spot does not hurt or help creationism. In fact, I would rather like to hear your reasoning behind...that. Evolution, now that is something that would hurt Creationism.

As to intelligent design, which is what I think you are attacking, ala the big bang theory stuff, I again do not see how geographical origins have anything to do with disproving the initial spark. Evolution does not go against this, surely.

You espouse love of science, but you should practice what you are preaching here! Your arguments may start at A, but you need to go the distance to B! Truly the points you raise are out of an emotional reaction, not a distant rational one. "A billion year project for you to change a flat," leads you to be not from any direct connection but from a "gut" choice.

I'll help you out. If you really want to use science to hurt the faith of someone, talk about the science questioning the existence of free will. This also may go against your obvious Ayn Rand inspired belief system. For one, I'll attack your racist comment. Guess what, racism is not just a cultural thing, and thus isn't merely created by such artificial constructs as religion, as you would say. In fact, brain activity to witnessed events best display empathy when observing someone of a shared culture. I'm not talking about skin color here, but something as subtle as hand gestures. And of course there is the behavioral economics stuff, which chose the irrationality behind many of our presumptive "rational" decisions.

Finally, your suggestion that people want to be slaves because of religion is lacking the basis of rational argument, but is based on faith! Guess what, the individual is not necessarily the be all and end all. We are limited, we are frail, we die. People desire to be slaves, period. Slaves not in the traditional sense, but in a way you would say is slavery (judging from your statement about religion). WE do not want endless choice, we want to be a part of something greater than our selves, we are slaves to society by choice, as we are "political" animals. So what if man is not the supreme entity, if he is or is not, I do not see how you can say either is good without a value statement based on some sort of faith.

I'm not a shamed to say I have faith, but please, put down your Atlas Shrugged, and recognize that you have put your faith in the emotional statement that man unhampered by "religion" would be something great.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 01:17:40 pm by Roemerista »Logged
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2011, 01:33:22 pm »
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While it's certainly true that a belief in God is far from confined to the U.S. (there are many people who believe in God everywhere), it's also true that the percentage of people who believe is much higher in the U.S. than in most European countries.  In most surveys, more than 90 percent of Americans polled say they believe in God, making a belief in God one of the very few things that more than 90 percent of the population agrees on.  In a 2005 study, the only European countries with this high a percentage of believers were Turkey and Malta.  In one survey, only 4 percent of Americans claimed to be atheists, while nearly one third (31 percent) of the French said they were.  

So instead of asking why Americans believe in God, a better question would be: "Why is a belief in God so overwhemingly held in the U.S., when in many other Western countries this belief is far from unanimous?"

I'm tempted to agree with this, only in the opposite direction. I hear so much from our friends on the other side of the pond about how we're the only ones who believe in God so much, why don't we join the rest of the modern Western world. I think, however, that it's the French that are too atheist, and not the Americans who are too religious.

Also:

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Clearly the solution is to privatize presidential elections.

So, in less than four years, get excited for the 2016 MetLife Financial U Pick The Prez Extravaganza. If you tweet a picture of your completed ballot with the hashtag #ivoted, you could win a trip for two to the inauguration or an iTunes gift card.
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2011, 02:25:01 pm »
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So, where is the proof now?
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2011, 02:49:04 pm »
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There is ultimately no evidence for or against the existence of a god.

/thread
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2011, 03:29:27 pm »
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There is ultimately no evidence for or against the existence of a god.

/thread


I guess it depends on what you mean by "evidence" and "a god."  Many people, including me, would argue that the many horrific and terribly unjust things that have happened in the world are very inconsistent, to say the least, with the existence of a god that is both all good and all powerful. 
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2011, 03:37:20 pm »
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The religious tribe say what about stalin he didnt believe in God, but Russia is one of the most religious countries in the world and the people are extremely superstitous. Stalin used the social fabric for his own purposes and tried to replace the virgin mary as an icon. Hence the pictures of dictators you see. Just like Jesus Christ. We as outsiders can see the delusion, but the people who worship stalin and jesus in their icons cannot. Dictators prospered in societies where education was weak and religion strong.

Ignoring the giant fracas the rest of the post brings up, I just want to point out that contrary to popular belief, Russia is and for quite a while has NOT been very religious. The vast majority of Russians are non practicing with a majority having never attended any religious services, and most just call themselves Orthodox as a nationalistic, Russian thing. The Orthodox church there is extremely powerful though.

But (still ignoring the main point of the rant) I don't see what point you're trying to make here. Is it that groups of people are willing to believe anything, like religion and dictatorship? Or that religious belief supports dictatorship? Either way it seems incredibly disingenuous. Dictatorship comes more from desire to concentrate power to oneself and ones family then from belief in a god. I have no doubt dictatorship would exist in a world with no religion.  
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2011, 03:49:26 pm »
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"God" and "evidence" are two words which can never be associated.
Until it is quite evident.. At which point, we're f**ked.

What do you mean ? I was merely pointing that rational evidence can never demonstrate the existence or non-existence of God.

That's not true. If God physically manifested himself and did stuff I think it would definitely constitute rational evidence for his existence.
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BlondewithaBrain
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2011, 03:50:10 pm »
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I just wrote a very long reply whch was not posted as i got timed out Sad so ill write it later again as im not going through everything said all over again. but i will reply. just have to type it quicker and not think.
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#Ready4Nixon
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2011, 03:57:57 pm »
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I just wrote a very long reply whch was not posted as i got timed out Sad so ill write it later again as im not going through everything said all over again. but i will reply. just have to type it quicker and not think.

Very good advice.
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2011, 04:13:00 pm »
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"God" and "evidence" are two words which can never be associated.
Until it is quite evident.. At which point, we're f**ked.

What do you mean ? I was merely pointing that rational evidence can never demonstrate the existence or non-existence of God.

That's not true. If God physically manifested himself and did stuff I think it would definitely constitute rational evidence for his existence.

Of course, if you want to consider such a possibility...
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Robb of the House Stark, First of his Name, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North



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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2011, 06:33:12 pm »
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"God" and "evidence" are two words which can never be associated.
Until it is quite evident.. At which point, we're f**ked.

What do you mean ? I was merely pointing that rational evidence can never demonstrate the existence or non-existence of God.

That's not true. If God physically manifested himself and did stuff I think it would definitely constitute rational evidence for his existence.

Of course, if you want to consider such a possibility...

Whether you think that is practically possible is irrelevant. Regardless, it seems odd to discuss the issue of God's existence without wanting to consider the possibility of him existing.

For example, I don't think unicorns exist but I have no problem considering the possibility and recognizing that if a unicorn showed up at my house it would be easy to verify its existence.
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This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2011, 07:14:20 pm »
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Hi Kyle.
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BlondewithaBrain
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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2011, 10:31:06 am »
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Where is the source of faith?
Well, hereís how religion has this effect, in my opinion: it is derived from the childhood of our species, from the bawling, fearful period of infancy. It comes from the time when we did not know that we lived on an orb; we thought we lived on a disc. And we did not know that we went around the sun or that the sky was not a dome; when we didnít know that there was a germ theory to explain disease, and innumerable theories for the explanation of things like famine. It comes from a time when we had no good answers, but because we are pattern-seeking animals (a good thing about us), and because we will prefer even a conspiracy theory or a junk theory to no theory at all (a bad thing about us). This is and was our first attempt of philosophy, just as in some ways, it was our first attempt at science, and it was all founded on and remains founded on a complete misapprehension about the origins, first of the universe, and second, about human nature.

Regarding religious people wishing to be slaves. Case Study North Korea

North Korea is the most religious state in the world. I wondered, what would it be like praising God and thanking him all day and all night? Well, look at North Korea, it is a completely worshipful state. It's set up only to do that, for adoration and itís only one short of a trinity. They have a father and the son, as you know, the Dear Leader and the Great Leader. The father is still the president of the country. Heís been dead for fifteen years, but Kim Jong-il, the little one, is only the head of the party and the Army. His father is still the president, head of the state. Now circumstances have since changed maybe he will be the holy ghost? but in theory what you have in North Korea is what you might call a necrocracy or what I also called them thanatocracy. Oneójust one short of a trinity: father, son, maybe no holy ghost - give it a few weeks, but they do say that when the birth of the younger one took place, the birds of Korea sang in Korean to mark the occasion. This Iíve checked. It did not happen. Take my word for it. It didn't occur and I suppose I should add they donít threaten to follow you after you're dead. You can leave North Korea. You can get out of their hell and their paradise by dying. Out of the Christian and Muslim one, you cannot. This is the wish to be a slave. And in my view, itís poisonous of human relations.

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BlondewithaBrain
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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2011, 10:38:43 am »
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The arguement that religious people do good things
Now some people say that some religious people have done great things and have been motivated to do so by their faith. The most cited case in point I have found is Martin Luther King, who I know I donít need to explain to you about.

Two points though: first, he was itís true a minister. He did preach the Book of Exodus, the exile of an enslaved and oppressed people as his metaphor. But if he really meant it, he would have said that the oppressed people, as the Book of Exodus finds them doing, were entitled to kill anyone who stood on their way and take their land, their property, enslave their women, kill their children, and commit genocide, rape, ethnic cleansing and forcible theft of land. Thatís what the Book of Exodus described happening, the full destruction of the tribes. It's very fortunate that King only meant the Bible at the most to be used as a metaphor and after all he was using the only book that he could be sure all of his audience had ever really read.

The second is, during his lifetime, he was attacked all the time for having too many secular and leftist and non-believing friends, the people like famous black secularists and others, the men that actually did organize the march on Washington.

The question religious people struggle to answer

Here is my challenge: you have to name me an ethical statement that was made or a moral action that was performed by a religious person in the name of faith that could not have been made as an action or uttered as a statement by a person not of faith, a person of no faith.

You have to do that. No one's been able to find me that. That being the case, we're entitled to say, I think, that religious faith serve as the requirements whereas if I was to ask , "Think of a wicked thing said or an evil thing done by a person of faith in the name of faith," no one would have a second of hesitation in thinking of one, would they? Smiley

« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 11:01:19 am by BlondewithaBrain »Logged
#Ready4Nixon
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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2011, 10:46:43 am »
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What qualifies as an ethical statement or a moral action?
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