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|-+  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  Congressional Elections (Moderator: Joe Republic)
| | |-+  Holden vs. Santorum
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Poll
Question: Who would you vote for Holden (D) vs. Santorum (R)?
D-Holden   -30 (62.5%)
D-Santorum   -0 (0%)
R-Holden   -3 (6.3%)
R-Santorum   -12 (25%)
Other   -3 (6.3%)
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Total Voters: 46

Author Topic: Holden vs. Santorum  (Read 14948 times)
danwxman
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« on: December 31, 2004, 01:16:40 am »
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Tim Holden (D-PA 17) is another centrist Democrat who could easily oust Santorum. He creamed Patern in the debates (Paterno did well too, Holden just has a very no-nonsense way of talking).

Any Democrat that can win in what should be a VERY safe Republican district is a go in my book against Santorum. A Democrat with support in the "T" could do just about anything in this state.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2004, 01:18:47 am »
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Santorum but I wouldn't mind a Senator Holden.
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2004, 03:36:20 am »
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I'd hold my nose and vote Santorum.
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Jake
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2004, 12:17:35 pm »
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Holden would be very good and he would cream Santorum, though liberal turnout wouldn't be very high. Maybe 54-44
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2004, 12:22:56 pm »
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I also think Holden would crush Santorum, he'd keep Santorum's margin of victory low in the T, he'd have the help of Rendell on the tickets on Philly & suburbs, though Santorum would do well in Western PA, I don't think it would be enough.
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2004, 01:54:22 pm »
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Tim Holden (D-PA 17) is another centrist Democrat who could easily oust Santorum. He creamed Patern in the debates (Paterno did well too, Holden just has a very no-nonsense way of talking).

Any Democrat that can win in what should be a VERY safe Republican district is a go in my book against Santorum. A Democrat with support in the "T" could do just about anything in this state.

Not a fan of Holden, but I'd vote for him over Santorum without blinking.  Question now is PA 17 is gone for the Dems though and in a primary, I would vote Hoeffel, Hafer, or Casey over Holden just because Holden runs a greater risk than Casey.  I'm not as sure of Holden as I am Casey.  Holden will also have liberal turnout issues and is unknown in the SE.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2004, 01:58:22 pm »
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Tim Holden (D-PA 17) is another centrist Democrat who could easily oust Santorum. He creamed Patern in the debates (Paterno did well too, Holden just has a very no-nonsense way of talking).

Any Democrat that can win in what should be a VERY safe Republican district is a go in my book against Santorum. A Democrat with support in the "T" could do just about anything in this state.

 Question now is PA 17 is gone for the Dems though

When Holden leaves, PA 17 is gone for the Dems.
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nclib
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2004, 08:49:04 pm »
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I'd vote Holden.

I think he'd have a chance but would do less well in the Philly 'burbs than a liberal pro-choice Democrat.

Klink failed in 2000, so the PA Dems might be wise to nominate a more socially liberal candidate.
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2004, 10:03:47 pm »
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Tim Holden (D-PA 17) is another centrist Democrat who could easily oust Santorum. He creamed Patern in the debates (Paterno did well too, Holden just has a very no-nonsense way of talking).

Any Democrat that can win in what should be a VERY safe Republican district is a go in my book against Santorum. A Democrat with support in the "T" could do just about anything in this state.

Not a fan of Holden, but I'd vote for him over Santorum without blinking.  Question now is PA 17 is gone for the Dems though and in a primary, I would vote Hoeffel, Hafer, or Casey over Holden just because Holden runs a greater risk than Casey.  I'm not as sure of Holden as I am Casey.  Holden will also have liberal turnout issues and is unknown in the SE.

Santorum does fairly good contistuency work, from what I've seen.  That is going to hurt and Dem's chances.
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2005, 12:43:30 am »
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Klink failed in 2000, so the PA Dems might be wise to nominate a more socially liberal candidate.

Are you kidding? The Democrats need a socially conservative candidate to win against Santorum. Now we saw that the conservative Klink was beaten by a pretty good margin (7 points) but moving further to the left (example: Barbara Hafer) will only lower the chances for the Dems but hey...I'm not complaining.   Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2005, 12:58:37 am »
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I'd vote Holden.

I think he'd have a chance but would do less well in the Philly 'burbs than a liberal pro-choice Democrat.

Klink failed in 2000, so the PA Dems might be wise to nominate a more socially liberal candidate.

Exactly, follow this advice PA Dems. NClib knows all
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nclib
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2005, 01:03:47 am »
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I'd vote Holden.

I think he'd have a chance but would do less well in the Philly 'burbs than a liberal pro-choice Democrat.

Klink failed in 2000, so the PA Dems might be wise to nominate a more socially liberal candidate.

Exactly, follow this advice PA Dems. NClib knows all

Klink lost because he didn't win socially liberal, economically conservative voters in the Philly suburbs. If nominating a socially conservative candidate didn't work in 2000, why would it work in 2006?
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[George W. Bush] has shattered the myth of white supremacy once and for all. -- Congressman Charles Rangel (D-NY)

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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2005, 01:07:51 am »
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I'd vote Holden.

I think he'd have a chance but would do less well in the Philly 'burbs than a liberal pro-choice Democrat.

Klink failed in 2000, so the PA Dems might be wise to nominate a more socially liberal candidate.

Exactly, follow this advice PA Dems. NClib knows all

Klink lost because he didn't win socially liberal, economically conservative voters in the Philly suburbs. If nominating a socially conservative candidate didn't work in 2000, why would it work in 2006?

Nominate a socially liberal candidate and you can't win the all important conservative Dem vote. Conservative Dems already like Santorum so you are only giving them another reason not to vote for their party's candidate.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2005, 01:15:27 am »
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I might be forced to vote libertarian, or write in a republican.

Holden's not bad...but from the opposite end of the spectrum.
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2005, 01:19:41 am »
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I'd vote Holden.

I think he'd have a chance but would do less well in the Philly 'burbs than a liberal pro-choice Democrat.

Klink failed in 2000, so the PA Dems might be wise to nominate a more socially liberal candidate.

Exactly, follow this advice PA Dems. NClib knows all

Klink lost because he didn't win socially liberal, economically conservative voters in the Philly suburbs. If nominating a socially conservative candidate didn't work in 2000, why would it work in 2006?

Because Klink was a Moran who ran a half-@ssed campaign. Holden is popular among Conservative Dems and he would be the reverse Arlen Specter. He would win the middle and more than compensate for lower liberal turnout.  Remember, Rendell is also running in 2006, so the Liberals will come out to vote for him.
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2005, 01:31:29 am »
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I'm sorry, but this immediately popped into mind.

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« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2005, 02:59:10 am »
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I'm sorry, but this immediately popped into mind.



I'm glad to know that you are crusading against bandwidth theft, unintentional as it may be.
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« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2005, 03:26:53 am »
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I'm sorry, but this immediately popped into mind.



Given the title of the image, I have a feeling that this is likely the image he was looking for:

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« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2005, 04:42:11 am »
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Klink lost because he didn't win socially liberal, economically conservative voters in the Philly suburbs. If nominating a socially conservative candidate didn't work in 2000, why would it work in 2006?

And Hoeffel lost because he was nuked in Western and North East PA.
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« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2005, 04:05:29 pm »
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Klink lost because he didn't win socially liberal, economically conservative voters in the Philly suburbs. If nominating a socially conservative candidate didn't work in 2000, why would it work in 2006?

And Hoeffel lost because he was nuked in Western and North East PA.

Do you have a map of that race?
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« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2005, 04:24:50 pm »
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CNN has a map:  http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/PA/S/01/index.html
My remark was mostly hyperbole: Hoeffel did pretty badly everywhere. He won a grand total of four counties... although he did win 71% in Philly.
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« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2005, 04:41:25 pm »
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But since he didn't really receive much support from the national party you can't really use that race as a good marker of anyone. Not to mention Specter is not an extremist nutcase.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2005, 04:52:27 pm »
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But since he didn't really receive much support from the national party you can't really use that race as a good marker of anyone. Not to mention Specter is not an extremist nutcase.

Also true, but using Klink (who IIRC also did pretty badly in NE PA) as an example of why a socially conservative Democrat "can't" beat Santorum is equally useless.
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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2005, 05:35:42 pm »
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Klink lost just because he was an overall poor candidate who ran a lousy campaign. It's possible to beat Santorum with different types of candidates who can appeal to different areas. Just beat him.
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« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2005, 05:42:39 pm »
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Klink lost just because he was an overall poor candidate who ran a lousy campaign. It's possible to beat Santorum with different types of candidates who can appeal to different areas. Just beat him.

Klink came out of a pretty bloody primary as well IIRC
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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