Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 25, 2014, 04:16:39 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Political Debate (Moderator: Beet)
| | |-+  Liberalism vs. Libertarianism
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Poll
Question: Which philosophy do you personally prefer?
Liberalism
Libertarianism
neither
Show Pie Chart

Author Topic: Liberalism vs. Libertarianism  (Read 4653 times)
Adele is pudgy!
necrophiliac
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 66
View Profile
« on: December 22, 2011, 08:06:11 pm »
Ignore

What are the similarities and differences between these two political philosophies?

Logged

#Ready4Nixon
Cathcon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15250
United States


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 08:10:52 pm »
Ignore

What are the similarities and differences between these two political philosophies?

Quite simple.
Logged

realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6654
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -0.13, S: 4.52

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 08:43:39 pm »
Ignore

I prefer liberalism in the American sense, but I don't care for either very much. Libertarianism disgusts me ideologically while liberalism is only mildly irritating. As for their similarities and differences, that's pretty self-evident...
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56843
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 08:55:13 pm »
Ignore

Liberalism is one of the most important ideologies in the 'West' and has played a big part in shaping it, but is tricky to define even in general terms because it collapsed as a political movement nearly a hundred years ago. Libertarianism is delusional wank, about as intellectually respectable as Trotskyism and without the latter's interesting pedigree.
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22563
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 09:43:39 pm »
Ignore

Thank God for this thread...it had been at least two days since liberals got to tell each other what libertarians were like.
Logged

SmugDealer
Rookie
*
Posts: 41


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 11:17:17 pm »
Ignore

Libertarian is a pretty new term compared to Liberal.

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=libertarian%2C+liberal&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=5&smoothing=3

I wonder what the difference was 100 years ago in America. ''Liberal'' only became a dirty word since Reagan, correct? In 1910, who was a ''liberal'' and who was a ''libertarian''?


Logged

Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31213
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2011, 06:33:21 am »
Ignore

Both these ideologies' meaning differs between Europe and USA. That said, Liberalism has been, by far, a more important ideological current. It has shaped the societies of developed countries to a considerable extent.
Logged

Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11974
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2011, 07:08:14 am »
Ignore

Libertarian originally meant anarchist, and it still does in much of Europe I think.
Logged

wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8584
Liechtenstein


Political Matrix
E: 4.52, S: -1.57

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2011, 12:05:46 pm »
Ignore

Libertarian originally meant anarchist, and it still does in much of Europe I think.

Of course, "anarchist" originally meant libertarian (as the term would imply, and therefore what most Americans still think of when they hear the word), not hyper-statism, so there you go.
Logged
АverroŽs Nix
AverroŽs Nix
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10241
United States


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2011, 05:02:01 pm »
Ignore

This poll needs a "both" option.
Logged

PS: I am using my late mother's Facebook account due to the difficulty of changing identities on Facebook. She has yet to complain.
bgwah
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13745
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2011, 05:19:03 pm »
Ignore

Thank God for this thread...it had been at least two days since liberals got to tell each other what libertarians were like.

Logged

dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22563
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2011, 08:03:36 pm »
Ignore

Don't cry little guy, there will be a better thread in a couple of days.
Logged

Yelnoc
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6556
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2011, 08:15:24 pm »
Ignore

Define "liberal." 
Logged

You're Atlas experience will be 100x better if you turn signatures off. Trust me.
bgwah
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13745
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 11:33:43 pm »
Ignore

Don't cry little guy, there will be a better thread in a couple of days.

Oh wow. I thought I was being easy on you! Surely even dead0man can take down my grade school attack with a middle school rebuttal, I thought to myself. But he resorts to "I know what you are but what am I," a pre-school classic.

I'll try to keep this in mind and just say you have cooties next time!
Logged

dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22563
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2011, 12:29:39 am »
Ignore

I know not to worry about cooties man, I've had my shots.
Logged

Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18805
United States
View Profile
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2011, 09:33:04 pm »
Ignore

This poll needs a "both" option.
Logged
politicus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4997
Denmark


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2012, 06:27:41 pm »
Ignore

Libertarian originally meant anarchist, and it still does in much of Europe I think.

Of course, "anarchist" originally meant libertarian (as the term would imply, and therefore what most Americans still think of when they hear the word), not hyper-statism, so there you go.
Never heard anyone in Europe - or anywhere else - define anarchism as hyperstatism.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 06:50:35 pm by politicus »Logged

Redalgo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2549
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2012, 07:54:23 pm »
Ignore

Liberalism for me if by liberalism we mean an ideology intended to optimize actionable individual autonomy through state enforcement of social rights and by libertarianism we mean an ideology intended to maximize the potential for individual autonomy through the abolition of state.
Logged

"I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to see realized." ~ Nelson Mandela
harry_johnson
Newbie
*
Posts: 13
United States


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2012, 12:12:54 am »
Ignore

It depends on which type of liberalism you're referring to also. Are we talking 21st century Democrats or the founding fathers?
Logged
freefair
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 704
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2012, 02:51:52 pm »
Ignore

I prefer small state-Libertarianism to "progressive" social Liberalism. But I prefer economically center right "Conservative Liberalism" a la Douglas Carlswell MP to both of them.
Logged

If you're centrist to right wing do follow this link and participate in this timelime poll!!
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=186153.0
PM- Ecn +4.95 Soc -4.95
Pragmatically libertarian. Centrist by US standards, Tory in UK.
Jerseyrules
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2477
United States


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 10:04:41 pm »
Ignore

Classical liberalism = libertarianism.  Modem liberals (and "conservatives") in America are hypocrites, arguing for less government but increasing it every chance they get when no one's looking
Logged

Drink Too Much:
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=147022.0

An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156974.0

Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

Libertarian Internationalist Monarchist
Lerom
Newbie
*
Posts: 3
Denmark


Political Matrix
E: -2.52, S: -8.09

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2012, 05:51:14 pm »
Ignore

Classical liberalism = libertarianism.  Modem liberals (and "conservatives") in America are hypocrites, arguing for less government but increasing it every chance they get when no one's looking
Sounds like the best description.

From Europe, American liberalism is probably what we would call social-liberalism, and libertarianism is either European liberalism or something a bit more to the right of it.

I would probably identify with being social-liberal, wouldnít mind being called (European) liberal, and would almost be offended to be called libertarian. Tongue
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 05:55:12 pm by Lerom »Logged
OC
olawakandi
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10006
United States


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2012, 05:37:38 pm »
Ignore

It was an attempt to narrow the gap between the rich and poor with socialism, but they should have put an exempt at the end of the yr from the fine for people that are far from being well off, otherwise it is hurting the same people it is trying to help by imposing a 700$ fine.  If the poor needs the refund, and it is due to them, the gov't will attempt to collect on it from their fine.
Logged
Rooney
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 743
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2012, 08:25:54 pm »
Ignore

I find both to be excellent philosophies that do not have to duel with one another. The dedication of both philosophies to free markets, free trade, free speech and civil liberties is well documented and work well together. That is if we are speaking of classical liberalism in the vein of Smith, Rivera and Mill and not "modern liberalism" as espoused by FDR, Robert Reich and Ed Schultz.
Logged



Political Matrix:
Economic score: +8.65
Social score: -8.00
Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9936
Uruguay


Political Matrix
E: 6.52, S: 2.00

View Profile
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2012, 06:39:01 pm »
Ignore

Neither. The 19th century was more libertarian than now, yet due to cultural decay combined with multiple long wars to justify larger and larger states we ended up with our current model of social democracy being the dominant ideological current. Be glad that it wasn't worse. After all, imagine if it had been national socialism or communism that won out in the 20th century.

Trying to implement libertarianism at this point wouldn't work. If you'd like a polity more libertarian in practice than current western nations, be prepared to favor reactionary notions such as limiting or abolishing the universal franchise.
Logged

The general's hand slipped, and pressed the launch all missiles button by accident.
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines