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| | |-+  Liberalism vs. Libertarianism
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Question: Which philosophy do you personally prefer?
Liberalism
Libertarianism
neither
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Author Topic: Liberalism vs. Libertarianism  (Read 3909 times)
Adele is pudgy!
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« on: December 22, 2011, 08:06:11 pm »
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What are the similarities and differences between these two political philosophies?

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Cathcon
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 08:10:52 pm »
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What are the similarities and differences between these two political philosophies?

Quite simple.
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realisticidealist
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 08:43:39 pm »
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I prefer liberalism in the American sense, but I don't care for either very much. Libertarianism disgusts me ideologically while liberalism is only mildly irritating. As for their similarities and differences, that's pretty self-evident...
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 08:55:13 pm »
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Liberalism is one of the most important ideologies in the 'West' and has played a big part in shaping it, but is tricky to define even in general terms because it collapsed as a political movement nearly a hundred years ago. Libertarianism is delusional wank, about as intellectually respectable as Trotskyism and without the latter's interesting pedigree.
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 09:43:39 pm »
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Thank God for this thread...it had been at least two days since liberals got to tell each other what libertarians were like.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 11:17:17 pm »
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Libertarian is a pretty new term compared to Liberal.

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=libertarian%2C+liberal&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=5&smoothing=3

I wonder what the difference was 100 years ago in America. ''Liberal'' only became a dirty word since Reagan, correct? In 1910, who was a ''liberal'' and who was a ''libertarian''?


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Antonio V
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2011, 06:33:21 am »
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Both these ideologies' meaning differs between Europe and USA. That said, Liberalism has been, by far, a more important ideological current. It has shaped the societies of developed countries to a considerable extent.
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2011, 07:08:14 am »
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Libertarian originally meant anarchist, and it still does in much of Europe I think.
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Carlos Danger
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2011, 12:05:46 pm »
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Libertarian originally meant anarchist, and it still does in much of Europe I think.

Of course, "anarchist" originally meant libertarian (as the term would imply, and therefore what most Americans still think of when they hear the word), not hyper-statism, so there you go.
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AverroŽs Nix
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2011, 05:02:01 pm »
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This poll needs a "both" option.
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bgwah
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2011, 05:19:03 pm »
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Thank God for this thread...it had been at least two days since liberals got to tell each other what libertarians were like.

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dead0man
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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2011, 08:03:36 pm »
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Don't cry little guy, there will be a better thread in a couple of days.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2011, 08:15:24 pm »
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Define "liberal." 
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bgwah
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 11:33:43 pm »
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Don't cry little guy, there will be a better thread in a couple of days.

Oh wow. I thought I was being easy on you! Surely even dead0man can take down my grade school attack with a middle school rebuttal, I thought to myself. But he resorts to "I know what you are but what am I," a pre-school classic.

I'll try to keep this in mind and just say you have cooties next time!
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dead0man
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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2011, 12:29:39 am »
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I know not to worry about cooties man, I've had my shots.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
Emperor Scott
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« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2011, 09:33:04 pm »
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This poll needs a "both" option.
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politicus
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2012, 06:27:41 pm »
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Libertarian originally meant anarchist, and it still does in much of Europe I think.

Of course, "anarchist" originally meant libertarian (as the term would imply, and therefore what most Americans still think of when they hear the word), not hyper-statism, so there you go.
Never heard anyone in Europe - or anywhere else - define anarchism as hyperstatism.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 06:50:35 pm by politicus »Logged

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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2012, 07:54:23 pm »
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Liberalism for me if by liberalism we mean an ideology intended to optimize actionable individual autonomy through state enforcement of social rights and by libertarianism we mean an ideology intended to maximize the potential for individual autonomy through the abolition of state.
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Liberal socialist
Political Matrix results: -3 (Economic), -8 (Social)
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« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2012, 12:12:54 am »
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It depends on which type of liberalism you're referring to also. Are we talking 21st century Democrats or the founding fathers?
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freefair
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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2012, 02:51:52 pm »
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I prefer small state-Libertarianism to "progressive" social Liberalism. But I prefer economically center right "Conservative Liberalism" a la Douglas Carlswell MP to both of them.
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Pragmatically libertarian. Centrist by US standards, Tory in UK.
Jerseyrules
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 10:04:41 pm »
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Classical liberalism = libertarianism.  Modem liberals (and "conservatives") in America are hypocrites, arguing for less government but increasing it every chance they get when no one's looking
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Lerom
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2012, 05:51:14 pm »
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Classical liberalism = libertarianism.  Modem liberals (and "conservatives") in America are hypocrites, arguing for less government but increasing it every chance they get when no one's looking
Sounds like the best description.

From Europe, American liberalism is probably what we would call social-liberalism, and libertarianism is either European liberalism or something a bit more to the right of it.

I would probably identify with being social-liberal, wouldnít mind being called (European) liberal, and would almost be offended to be called libertarian. Tongue
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 05:55:12 pm by Lerom »Logged
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2012, 05:37:38 pm »
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It was an attempt to narrow the gap between the rich and poor with socialism, but they should have put an exempt at the end of the yr from the fine for people that are far from being well off, otherwise it is hurting the same people it is trying to help by imposing a 700$ fine.  If the poor needs the refund, and it is due to them, the gov't will attempt to collect on it from their fine.
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2012, 08:25:54 pm »
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I find both to be excellent philosophies that do not have to duel with one another. The dedication of both philosophies to free markets, free trade, free speech and civil liberties is well documented and work well together. That is if we are speaking of classical liberalism in the vein of Smith, Rivera and Mill and not "modern liberalism" as espoused by FDR, Robert Reich and Ed Schultz.
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Political Matrix:
Economic score: +8.65
Social score: -8.00
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2012, 06:39:01 pm »
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Neither. The 19th century was more libertarian than now, yet due to cultural decay combined with multiple long wars to justify larger and larger states we ended up with our current model of social democracy being the dominant ideological current. Be glad that it wasn't worse. After all, imagine if it had been national socialism or communism that won out in the 20th century.

Trying to implement libertarianism at this point wouldn't work. If you'd like a polity more libertarian in practice than current western nations, be prepared to favor reactionary notions such as limiting or abolishing the universal franchise.
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