How does this make you feel, fellow Americans?

[Gustaf]

Tender Branson wants me to write up my criticisms of Austria.

They aren't in any particular order.

1. (Grocery) Stores close at 5pm... and 6pm on Fridays, for your convenience. *but we're only open until noon on Saturday and Sunday.. well, f**k off.

2.  Rude employees at various stores.  I understand that it's a different culture and that Austrians, like any good Germans, will go out of their way to be stiff as a board and about as friendly as one too... but come on.  

3.  They're obsessed with stamps.  You know... the "kachink kachink" kind where you can adjust the numbers and dates.  The bigger, the better... A signature just doesn't cut it.  It will take your signature and four or five stamps in various places by Mr. Bureaucrat, to whom you must refer in the most gracious of terms lest you commit an egregious error in the intricate intricacies of rigid German hierarchical formality structure.  "Oh yes.  For him yooou wud use "Sie" becoss he is a stranger and he is wearing a suit.  But if you go to da mountain and you are on da top of da mountain, den you can use "du" because HEY, YOU'RE ON THE TOP OF DA MOUNTAIN, gell?"

4.  Dubbing.  Ugh... this can only be the complaint of a foreigner and I know it doesn't matter to Germans/Austrians because they've grown up with the "German" version of the voices.  But when you have to listen to characters you know very well speak in a completely different, poorly matched German where half the jokes just don't translate...  I urge all Germans/Austrians... consume media in its native language whenever possible.  

5.  Different concepts of sharing.  At least in Minnesota, if you have a treat or something... you offer to share it with who your with.  And then they will either say no.. or "oh sure.. but just a small piece".  When Austrians say "Oh hey, can I have some?", they mean most of what's left.  

6.  Smoking.  A trip to Austria is like a trip back to 1950s America as far as cigarette smoking is concerned.  Everybody does it... at least when they're drunk.  I don't understand this.  They're not really much cheaper than American cigarettes, so they're spending a lot of money on it.  And because they have poor ventilation in most buildings owing to their centuries old construction, bars get to the point where the fire marshall would order an evacuation in the U.S.  Another thing, 70% of the people at the bar are guys.  And no, it's not a gay bar because it's Austria.  Outside of Vienna, it's the cultural equivalent to rural West Virginia.  Except with healthcare and fewer guns.  And grocery stores that close at 5.  (I might be exaggerating a bit)

7.  Authority.  I've talked before about how I found a strong lack of challenge to authority.  I just think the attitude of "you have your place, now do your job as you're told to do" is more accepted there.  Their education system basically just reaffirms that in peoples' heads.  

That's all I can think of right now...  I tried to keep a good mix of serious criticisms and petty ones.

 

As a Swede who's been quite a bit to both Austria and Germany, I basically agree with all of those sentiments. Still loved both countries though.

[Ban my account ffs!]

1. Yeah, which is pretty cool. Almost nobody shops at grocery shops anyway, but mostly in bigger chains such as Billa, Merkur, Hofer, Spar, M-Preis etc. and usually they are open until 8pm from Mon-Fri and until 6 or 7pm on Saturday. Why should we open on Sunday ? I think it's good that the capitalists cannot do whatever they want here and it leaves a fix day off for the employees and for their families and watch skiing events, go out or do whatever they want. Almost nobody likes to shop on a Sunday anyway, except the tourists and they should rather shop during the week after work or touring or best - on Saturday - like we Austrians do ...

2. happens in every country. These people often are stressed and don't earn a lot. And the customers are often idiots as well.

3. Yeah, the [German] correctness - more mildly and lässiger applied by the Austrians. Sometimes unnerving, but mostly good. Helps in combating fraud and corruption and unlike in the US or some other places helps to keep the deficits low, because it weeds out incompetence.

4. I always think the same when I watch movies in their original [American English] voice. We just WANT them dubbed ! DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ? WE ARE NOT IN THE US !

5. Don't really understand this. Do you want to say that most Austrians are megalomaniac ? Most persons I know, are also just saying "No" or "Oh sure.. but just a small piece". And not "I want everything" ...

6. Yeah, there are a lot of smokers. Especially young people are European Smoking Champions. Most of my friends are smokers as well, or usually don't smoke, but smoke when they are out. Which I also did when I was 15-18. But now I havn't touched a cigarette for over 3 years I guess. But a lot of bars/clubs in my area are smoking clubs and when we play pool or darts in there, I don't mind when it's dusty like in a 1930s Italian mafia backroom. 70% of people in the bars are male ? You have probably been at the wrong bars then. Well, you probably have to go to clubs, not bars - because in the clubs it's more 50/50. In bars, you mostly meet older (redneck) (men) who talk with the barkeeper, or you meet a men's football club which is hanging out at the Stammtisch with lots of beer, cigarettes and playing loud music and singing ... Outside of Vienna is like West Virginia ? More like Colorado, don't you think ?

7. Yeah, that is probably true. Authority and moderate heroism is very important for Austrian parents. That's why we most likely have so few strikes or protests etc. What do you mean with the education system exactly ?

1.  Spar, Billa, Hofer... those are grocery stores.  I'm not sure what you would consider a grocery shop?  Like a fruit stand?
And maybe they were open later where you live, but in the city of Salzburg, they closed at 5 or 5:30 (Billa)... and were open until 6pm on Fridays.

As for the Sunday off... I don't buy that argument one bit.  No liberal economy in the world forces its workers to work 7 days a week.  All you do by giving *everybody* the same day off every week is ensure that they have absolutely nothing to do... except like you said... going to the zoo or the movies or whatever... but then... those people have to work on Sunday!  Instead, people often have two other days off during the week.  Maybe Thursday and Saturday or Monday and Tuesday... it's so that services are available all the time while still giving people time off.

2.  People might be rude in every country... but it is particularly prevalent in Germany and Austria.  Their whole demeanor suggests that you should apologize for having the audacity to shop at their store.  They weren't like this in the Czech Republic or England...

3.  I highly doubt the formality structure of the German language was invented to combat fraud.. but instead to show you where your place is in society.  I just always found it funny that you use "du" with God... but you must use the formal "Sie" with, say, a colleague who has a higher position than you that you've known for 25 years.

In fact, I reject the premise that it combats fraud.  I think it could make it even worse... because you can hide behind the "Sie"... you can simply use dry, formal language rather than relying more on tone of voice and accompanying facial expressions.. which are much easier indicators of fraud.  That said, it is definitely more lax in Austria than in Germany... as Austrians and Austrian culture seems more laid back.  And if I f**ked up and said du when I should have said Sie, I could just hide behind the "I'm an American"

4.  I know what you mean, which is why I said only a foreigner would think that.  But still, I think so much is lost in translation and so on a general scale, I think subtitles are simply better.  I really don't want to see a Japanese film with English dubbing.. it's awful.  I don't want to see Eddie Murphy talking with the voice of some white German guy.  Again, a personal preference.  

5.  This sharing thing was completely from personal experience... not some great societal thing I noticed.  The people I hung around with were all generally college students who didn't have a ton of money so if you offered to share, they probably just figured you had bought it with sharing in mind.  I'm pretty sure if I had offered a friend's grandma some chips or something, she wouldn't snatch the bag away and start chowing down.

6.  I spent most weekends in the bars in the inner city of Salzburg.  Most of the people at these bars were my age.. generally 18-29 years old.  And it was easily a huge majority male.  The university parties and clubs were more evenly mixed, as you said.  As for American cultural equivalents... Colorado is a bad choice because it is backwards compared to Austria... in Colorado, the flat areas are conservative and the mountain areas are liberal.  Very liberal.  Like "I love to ski but my lung capacity is greatly reduced by the massive quantities of marijuana I smoke" liberal.

My general impression of Austria is that it is a very conservative country + Vienna.  It's not conservative in the bible thumping, slain in the spirit, I'ma kill u cuz u gay type of way... but in the "oh, we have Thursday off from class because it's St. Barniferous day.. the saint that saved the village of Rottenegg from a cholera epidemic in 1322 by holding the entire population in isolated holding cells with no water to drink for 5 days!

Austria also has a deep connection to its history and traditions and I just sensed you guys don't like to change radically... which is the very definition of conservative.

So maybe I'd say Austria is more like Pennsylvania.. just with more mountains.  Or maybe even Maine or something.

7.  I meant your forked education system... though Austria's is only 2 (Hauptschule and Gymnasium), correct?  Even so, the branching of people at a young age into various hierarchies of learning with almost no chance for upward mobility reaffirms that respect of hierarchy and authority in society.  

But I will say that I loved how easy going people generally were despite my criticisms above and how accepted they made me feel.  Austrian hospitality is top notch.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Didn't read all of them, but I'd probably agree with him on most of them if I weren't so used to it. Definitely agree with him on the tipping one.

[Tender Branson]

1.  Spar, Billa, Hofer... those are grocery stores.  I'm not sure what you would consider a grocery shop?  Like a fruit stand?
And maybe they were open later where you live, but in the city of Salzburg, they closed at 5 or 5:30 (Billa)... and were open until 6pm on Fridays.

As for the Sunday off... I don't buy that argument one bit.  No liberal economy in the world forces its workers to work 7 days a week.  All you do by giving *everybody* the same day off every week is ensure that they have absolutely nothing to do... except like you said... going to the zoo or the movies or whatever... but then... those people have to work on Sunday!  Instead, people often have two other days off during the week.  Maybe Thursday and Saturday or Monday and Tuesday... it's so that services are available all the time while still giving people time off.

2.  People might be rude in every country... but it is particularly prevalent in Germany and Austria.  Their whole demeanor suggests that you should apologize for having the audacity to shop at their store.  They weren't like this in the Czech Republic or England...

3.  I highly doubt the formality structure of the German language was invented to combat fraud.. but instead to show you where your place is in society.  I just always found it funny that you use "du" with God... but you must use the formal "Sie" with, say, a colleague who has a higher position than you that you've known for 25 years.

In fact, I reject the premise that it combats fraud.  I think it could make it even worse... because you can hide behind the "Sie"... you can simply use dry, formal language rather than relying more on tone of voice and accompanying facial expressions.. which are much easier indicators of fraud.  That said, it is definitely more lax in Austria than in Germany... as Austrians and Austrian culture seems more laid back.  And if I f**ked up and said du when I should have said Sie, I could just hide behind the "I'm an American"

4.  I know what you mean, which is why I said only a foreigner would think that.  But still, I think so much is lost in translation and so on a general scale, I think subtitles are simply better.  I really don't want to see a Japanese film with English dubbing.. it's awful.  I don't want to see Eddie Murphy talking with the voice of some white German guy.  Again, a personal preference. 

5.  This sharing thing was completely from personal experience... not some great societal thing I noticed.  The people I hung around with were all generally college students who didn't have a ton of money so if you offered to share, they probably just figured you had bought it with sharing in mind.  I'm pretty sure if I had offered a friend's grandma some chips or something, she wouldn't snatch the bag away and start chowing down.

6.  I spent most weekends in the bars in the inner city of Salzburg.  Most of the people at these bars were my age.. generally 18-29 years old.  And it was easily a huge majority male.  The university parties and clubs were more evenly mixed, as you said.  As for American cultural equivalents... Colorado is a bad choice because it is backwards compared to Austria... in Colorado, the flat areas are conservative and the mountain areas are liberal.  Very liberal.  Like "I love to ski but my lung capacity is greatly reduced by the massive quantities of marijuana I smoke" liberal.

My general impression of Austria is that it is a very conservative country + Vienna.  It's not conservative in the bible thumping, slain in the spirit, I'ma kill u cuz u gay type of way... but in the "oh, we have Thursday off from class because it's St. Barniferous day.. the saint that saved the village of Rottenegg from a cholera epidemic in 1322 by holding the entire population in isolated holding cells with no water to drink for 5 days!

Austria also has a deep connection to its history and traditions and I just sensed you guys don't like to change radically... which is the very definition of conservative.

So maybe I'd say Austria is more like Pennsylvania.. just with more mountains.  Or maybe even Maine or something.

7.  I meant your forked education system... though Austria's is only 2 (Hauptschule and Gymnasium), correct?  Even so, the branching of people at a young age into various hierarchies of learning with almost no chance for upward mobility reaffirms that respect of hierarchy and authority in society. 

But I will say that I loved how easy going people generally were despite my criticisms above and how accepted they made me feel.  Austrian hospitality is top notch.

1. A grocery shop to me is like a very small shop, like the ones I went to in NYC. A shop that is like 10x10 meters in space. Those grocery shops that you usually find in smaller towns. All the Billa's, Hofers, Merkurs, Interspars I have been to are about 50x50 meters in size or they are to find in malls. And they really are open until 8pm, because after work I drive to them and shop at them. But yeah, in the bigger cities there could be smaller ones due to the lack of space.

2. As I've said, I never ecountered this. Maybe this is a foreigners thing.

3. Yeah, that is pretty unique in the German-speaking world. It already starts in school with the teachers, whch you have to call "Sie" out of respect because they already achieved something and you are a little nothing ... For an English speaker it might be strange, because you only say "You" and there's no "Du" or "Sie". But it really depends: I always refer to people in my age group (10-35) as "du", while refering to people I don't know and who are in the age groups between 35-60 as "Sie", just because it's more polite. Especially to people who I consider to be more "uppity" or from Vienna, because these people in general react allergically when you refer to them as "du". In rural areas though you can basically call everyone with a "du". The situation is more complicated with the teachers I've mentioned before. You called them all the time with "Sie" while in school, but what happens if you meet your teacher after having left school for 5 years ? Do you still call them with a "Sie" or with a "du" ? For an American this might be ridiculous, but for a German-speaking person it might turn out as an embarassing situation of some sorts. BTW: I didn't mean that the "formality structure of the German language was invented to combat fraud", but rather the excessive use of stamps to ensure correctness and to avoid fraud and mistakes.

4. We are just very used to it, that's all. Of course, all the "ghetto-voices" of American blacks are getting lost with the dubbing like you said, but it really doesn't matter all too much. Even though there are some cases like when Barney in HIMYM uses the word "awesome", you simply cannot dub it, without it losing some of its meaning.

6. Well, I thought Colorado - because of the landscape. BTW: Many ski areas here are generally conservative in voting patterns, but the people who live there are actually more welcoming and friendlier to foreign tourists than let's say people from Simmering in Vienna. If that has to do with the fact that they are dependent on the tourist's money or because they have to deal with tourists on a daily basis, I don't know. When it comes to the younger age groups, I don't think there's much of a difference between Colorado and Austria.

As for the days off: We Austrians like to have a lot of days off and we like all those saints who are to blame for this. You call it conservative, I call it a great way of relaxing ...

7) Education System: in Austria, after kindergarden, you usually start at the Volksschule from 1st to 4th grade. Then you either go into the Hauptschule (rural areas) or the Unterstufe of the Gymnasium (urban areas) - 5th to 8th grade. In recent years there have been reforms to introduce a NMS (New Middle School) which will transform Hauptschulen and Unterstufen and merge them from the year 2015 onwards I think. After 8th grade, you can choose from a few options: you can either go to Polytechnical schools, which like the name says, focuses on technical professions. Or you can go to the Oberstufe of the Gymnasium, which is similar to the American high-school. Or you can go to a HAK/HASCH, which is a trade/economics/business/banking school. Those graduates usually have the lowest unemployment rates later on at 1-2%. Or you can attend a tourism school, or schools of a variety of different professions. But in general, you are correct, Austrian schools are business and career-focused, not university-focused.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I find some of these to be off.
Now some of these are excellent points, such as (and not limited to) 1,5,11,12,13,16.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

A Canadian criticism of America


1. You guys are too loud.
Jeeze, keep it down already, no need to shout at the person sitting next to you, and no need for them to shout back at you. Did your parents never teach you about having an "inside voice"? You know that still qualifies on the Bus or Train right?

2. Read a newspaper or a book ferchrissake.
Canada, Europe, and Mexico are your biggest trading partners, and, the countries that are closest to you culturally and economically. The fact that a huge chunk of your population can not name things like the Capital of Canada, any single State in Mexico (there are plenty to choose from), and can't properly place Paris or London as the capitol of France or England (best is when you guys get em confused) is just sad.

3. You are still to loud.
Look, I know you are angry, but there is such a thing as a "stern voice" that does not require shouting. You can express your anger much better with body language, and eye contact, than you can by screaming at the top of your lungs.

4. Enough with the "Racism" already.
Not only is the amount of racism down there enough to make someone literally ill, but the counter-forces, thanks to this, are in overdrive. Every year, if you watch CNN, you'll learn another dozen words that are somehow, apparently, racist. You'd think they are making this up, but no, the insane racists are.

5. God dang it, keep it down people!
You don't need to shout in to your cell phone, and it's probably a good idea to NOT compare everything you see around you to how things are "back in the states". Take a clue: Americans are not very popular in not very many places, try to be discrete.

6. Stop thinking you guys are somehow "right" and the world is "wrong"
Especially to Republicans. You know what, sometimes people do things differently than you do, and sometimes, surprise surprise, it actually works. Sure the "side effects" will be different from the "side effects" of your own plans and ideas, but you know what, sometimes we like things that we we've built them. We don't need you, in your silly over-personality-driven elections, going on rants about how wrong we are in our country. The world has it's eyes on you - get used to it.

7. Alright, that's enough, out! You are being disruptive.
Lastly, for all your bluster and bravado, you guys really don't seem to understand authority. You kick and scream and yell like an angry Dog barking from behind a closed door, but you guys are unable to be firm without some sort of violence. While a Canadian security guard or police officer could kick you out of a building without ever laying a hand on you, I doubt an American one could do the same. Your bark is worse than your bite, and the only way you can even the score is to get physical. This relates back to everything above: try using your brains more often.

[Ban my account ffs!]

1. A grocery shop to me is like a very small shop, like the ones I went to in NYC. A shop that is like 10x10 meters in space. Those grocery shops that you usually find in smaller towns. All the Billa's, Hofers, Merkurs, Interspars I have been to are about 50x50 meters in size or they are to find in malls. And they really are open until 8pm, because after work I drive to them and shop at them. But yeah, in the bigger cities there could be smaller ones due to the lack of space.

2. As I've said, I never ecountered this. Maybe this is a foreigners thing.

3. Yeah, that is pretty unique in the German-speaking world. It already starts in school with the teachers, whch you have to call "Sie" out of respect because they already achieved something and you are a little nothing ... For an English speaker it might be strange, because you only say "You" and there's no "Du" or "Sie". But it really depends: I always refer to people in my age group (10-35) as "du", while refering to people I don't know and who are in the age groups between 35-60 as "Sie", just because it's more polite. Especially to people who I consider to be more "uppity" or from Vienna, because these people in general react allergically when you refer to them as "du". In rural areas though you can basically call everyone with a "du". The situation is more complicated with the teachers I've mentioned before. You called them all the time with "Sie" while in school, but what happens if you meet your teacher after having left school for 5 years ? Do you still call them with a "Sie" or with a "du" ? For an American this might be ridiculous, but for a German-speaking person it might turn out as an embarassing situation of some sorts. BTW: I didn't mean that the "formality structure of the German language was invented to combat fraud", but rather the excessive use of stamps to ensure correctness and to avoid fraud and mistakes.

4. We are just very used to it, that's all. Of course, all the "ghetto-voices" of American blacks are getting lost with the dubbing like you said, but it really doesn't matter all too much. Even though there are some cases like when Barney in HIMYM uses the word "awesome", you simply cannot dub it, without it losing some of its meaning.

6. Well, I thought Colorado - because of the landscape. BTW: Many ski areas here are generally conservative in voting patterns, but the people who live there are actually more welcoming and friendlier to foreign tourists than let's say people from Simmering in Vienna. If that has to do with the fact that they are dependent on the tourist's money or because they have to deal with tourists on a daily basis, I don't know. When it comes to the younger age groups, I don't think there's much of a difference between Colorado and Austria.

As for the days off: We Austrians like to have a lot of days off and we like all those saints who are to blame for this. You call it conservative, I call it a great way of relaxing ...

7) Education System: in Austria, after kindergarden, you usually start at the Volksschule from 1st to 4th grade. Then you either go into the Hauptschule (rural areas) or the Unterstufe of the Gymnasium (urban areas) - 5th to 8th grade. In recent years there have been reforms to introduce a NMS (New Middle School) which will transform Hauptschulen and Unterstufen and merge them from the year 2015 onwards I think. After 8th grade, you can choose from a few options: you can either go to Polytechnical schools, which like the name says, focuses on technical professions. Or you can go to the Oberstufe of the Gymnasium, which is similar to the American high-school. Or you can go to a HAK/HASCH, which is a trade/economics/business/banking school. Those graduates usually have the lowest unemployment rates later on at 1-2%. Or you can attend a tourism school, or schools of a variety of different professions. But in general, you are correct, Austrian schools are business and career-focused, not university-focused.

1.  The small shops you're thinking of are most definitely the exception to the rule and tend only to occur in inner cities or very small towns.  They're probably better classified as a "neighborhood market".  The vast majority of Americans shop at grocery stores about the size of the Sparmarkt in Europark mall in Salzburg... and that place had a lot of space devoted to non-grocery items like clothing.  Here it would just be grocery items in that whole space.  We have 4 large grocery stores in my town.  3 are open from 6am until 11pm or midnight, and the other, which is Wal-Mart, is open 24 hours a day.  You would consider them "Supermarkt".. but people, at least here, just call them "the grocery store".  

2.  I'm fairly certain that a lot of it just comes down to culture.  And it also comes down to stress.  I had to shop at the Billa and Spar that were right in the central part of Salzburg... where most tourists had to make rounds to buy their Mozartkugeln or whatever.. and you'd have 40 Japanese tourists crammed into this tiny area looking at the Mozartkugeln while people were trying to shop.  I understand if the employees get stressed out and annoyed by this.  But even if you'd take the bus to Hofer, the people weren't friendly or even pleasant.  Just very all business, all the time.  It's just the complete opposite here.  You are expected to have some conversation with the cashier.  You might even consider that rude to have them asking how your day is going and commenting on various things and expecting a response from you.  

3.  I understand there are good points to the du/Sie system.  My friend's mom once drove the wrong way in a one-way because there was nobody around and it would save her a lot of time.  But this guy walking out of the building saw her do it and came over and just started cussing her out... in fact, he said "Sie Drecksau!!!"... there the Sie reaffirms their unfamiliarity with each other and makes the insult all the worse.

You mentioned teachers.. and yes, it can be confusing here, but it all depends on your personal relationship with the teacher.  My middle school principle was always Ms. B****** when I was in middle school.. but after middle school, it's always been Barb.  But she used to make the 1st graders recite various things in German before she'd let them come inside from recess as well... so she isn't the best example.  My other teachers I'd probably just call by Mr. or Mrs. whatever because that's how I know them.  I still call my high school German teacher just "Frau".. because that's how we addressed her in class.

7.  Yeah, I knew there was more than just Gymnasium and Hauptschule... but I didn't know exactly how it worked.  My German teacher my 1st semester in Austria was actually a teacher at I guess what is the "Oberstufe" and she just said there were basically two branches but that fewer and fewer children were going to the Hauptschule because it was seen as 2nd-class.  But I love the usage of terms like Unterstufe and Oberstufe.. I wish English would do this sometimes.  Oh, it's not primary and secondary school.. it's "under stuff" and "over stuff and stuff."  (Minnesotans love the word stuff.  "Hi honey.. what'd ya do in school today?"  "A bunch of math and stuff.  Are we gonna go to Pizza Ranch tonight?"  "Yeah, but first I hafta run a couple errands n' stuff.")

I don't want you to think I'm trying to trash on your country.  I mean, you asked me for my criticisms

I had one of the best times of my life there and I would love to live and work there.  I think that is a more accurate testament to how I feel about Austria.

[Franzl]

I will say that I don't really understand the perception of "rudeness" in Germany/Austria. The artificial smile and artificial interest in how my day's going are more annoying to me.

Maybe you have to be a German asshole, like me, to understand

[Tender Branson]

It's just the complete opposite here.  You are expected to have some conversation with the cashier.  You might even consider that rude to have them asking how your day is going and commenting on various things and expecting a response from you.

Try talking with a cashier at a Supermarket here during the Christmas time ...

There are about 10 people waiting behind you and you start talking with the cashier. The people will probably think you are crazy. On the other hand, I see lots of cashiers in smaller towns talk with their customers, or even in Supermarkets when there's not a lot going on.

[dead0man]

3. Yeah, that is pretty unique in the German-speaking world. It already starts in school with the teachers, whch you have to call "Sie" out of respect because they already achieved something and you are a little nothing ... For an English speaker it might be strange, because you only say "You" and there's no "Du" or "Sie". But it really depends: I always refer to people in my age group (10-35) as "du", while refering to people I don't know and who are in the age groups between 35-60 as "Sie", just because it's more polite. Especially to people who I consider to be more "uppity" or from Vienna, because these people in general react allergically when you refer to them as "du". In rural areas though you can basically call everyone with a "du". The situation is more complicated with the teachers I've mentioned before. You called them all the time with "Sie" while in school, but what happens if you meet your teacher after having left school for 5 years ? Do you still call them with a "Sie" or with a "du" ? For an American this might be ridiculous, but for a German-speaking person it might turn out as an embarassing situation of some sorts.

That sounds horrible.

[Franzl]

Isn't it like that in most languages? Having only one "you" is a luxury in English.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Isn't it like that in most languages? Having only one "you" is a luxury in English.

Thou do talk nonsense.

[Franzl]

Isn't it like that in most languages? Having only one "you" is a luxury in English.

Thou do talk nonsense.

Alright, I get the point....but it's not common practice

[Ban my account ffs!]

Isn't it like that in most languages? Having only one "you" is a luxury in English.

Thou do talk nonsense.

Would that not be "thou dost talk nonsense"?

Or wouldst thou disagree?

[RIP Robert H Bork]

17 cultural reasons why this European never wants to live in America

I completely disagree, of course, though I see why you (and probably most others on the forum) approve.

[Franzl]

17 cultural reasons why this European never wants to live in America

I completely disagree, of course, though I see why you (and probably most others on the forum) approve.

You don't think even a single point is true and valid? You know, being a conservative doesn't mean you have to deny facts. (Well, increasingly, it does in America at least,  but that's an unfortunate political development.)

[fezzyfestoon]

17 cultural reasons why this European never wants to live in America

I completely disagree, of course, though I see why you (and probably most others on the forum) approve.

Yes, I hate America, blah blah blah...

The point of this wasn't really to discuss the writer and his motives or mine in posting this. After all, the messenger means next to nothing when the message is largely accurate. But then I suppose trashing the writer and his home is an easier defense than actually admitting flaws. Yes, there are indeed flaws in other countries. That doesn't change the fact that we have our own. Defensive responses to criticism aren't exactly a ringing endorsement regardless.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I will say that I don't really understand the perception of "rudeness" in Germany/Austria. The artificial smile and artificial interest in how my day's going are more annoying to me.

Maybe you have to be a German asshole, like me, to understand

This American asshole understands and wishes that Americans were more like Germans in that regard. I can't stand the fact that I'm forced to be a phony by society. Then again, is of German descent and they lived in a predominantly German town.