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| | |-+  Are fascists/nationalists the Islamists of the Russian Spring?
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Author Topic: Are fascists/nationalists the Islamists of the Russian Spring?  (Read 1527 times)
Beet
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« on: December 24, 2011, 12:08:11 pm »
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The below story, combined with Navalny's own past, is certainly interesting. It is important to note that while United Russia tolerated and encouraged moderate nationalism until 2009, for the past two years there has been a crackdown on hardline nationalist violence. There are also a lot of photos of the protests with people raising their right fist, which you see the fascists/nationalists doing a lot and would seem to be a right-power symbol. It really is fascinating how well these people would do in real elections (as opposed to online ones).

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http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/12/23/russia-opposition-faces-online-communication-problems/

"...in the Top 30 list, four nationalists were on high positions, while on Facebook there was none.

This led to a controversy. An anarchist who called himself Ukrop ('dill' in Russian) stated that these online elections “were as falsified as the official ones.” Boris Nemtsov, leader of Solidarity movement, who had been caught cursing at his political allies, supported this idea. As one representative proposed: “Let an IT guy create a program that would make 2,000 votes in a few minutes and let everyone see how easy it's to cheat online with such voting.”

The option of using SurveyMonkey in the future seemed to be recognized as flawed. Then Bilunov proposed to use either Facebook or Democracy2.ru (an e-democracy platform created by the author of “Cloud Democracy” concept Leonid Volkov). Geidar Djemal had a Bolshevik-style proposal of choosing delegates based on their “political suitability” and not on poll results.

The nationalists, however, didn't like Facebook voting, claiming there were “only liberals” there, and that the choice of the platform would have a significant impact on the outcome of the voting."
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Vosem
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 02:49:46 pm »
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Very possibly, though Zyuganov is probably the best example of modern Russian nationalism; these people hold very far-right views when it comes to their neighbors, but very left-wing when it comes to domestic politics. They basically want the USSR back, preferably with its sphere of influence.
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Beet
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 05:05:32 pm »
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Zyuganov is an old man. The Communists recently acquired a permit to rally 10,000 people; fewer than 3,000 showed up, and most that did were in their 70s or 80s, more about reliving the past than engaging in politics. When one of their speakers ended by calling for a return of the USSR at a recent mixed rally, he was booed offstage.

No, when the term "nationalist" is used in the Russian political context it means far right-wing political groups primarily motivated by anti-Caucasian sentiment that frequently tolerate or even encourage violence. Navalny, for example, is associated with such groups.
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Vosem
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 05:17:05 pm »
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What I mean is that, although he doesn't call himself one, the internal, "domestic", policies that Zyuganov advocates largely correspond to those of the nationalists. Polling in Russia shows that perhaps 2/3 regret the loss of the USSR. I haven't heard of this, but please do provide a link Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 05:35:02 pm »
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Here is a link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/world/europe/communists-solidify-opposition-role-in-russia.html

Interestingly, it appears that the "coat of arms flag", erroneously called "Romanov dynastic flag": the official national flag of the Russian Empire from 1858 to 1883, is currently being used by Russian Nationalists and Monarchists.

It is black, yellow, and white.



When you see this flag, you know it is far-right nationalists or monarchists. For instance,



And here, you see it mixed with a flag depicting what appears to be a white bird on a red background with some text:



It would be a great help to us if there were actually someone on the ground in Moscow who could help us interpret the signals. It is almost impossible to diagnose such things from a distance.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 11:12:49 pm »
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My impression is that the driving force behind these protests has been the urban middle class, which has no real connection with the nationalists. While they make up a significant part of the protests because they're the one of the most organized oppositional forces to Putin, the sentiment of the protesters is not on their side.

My worry is that the silent majority would be more amenable to a fascist government in the event of a revolution rather than a return to a shaky liberal democracy. What would the average Russian have against an even more authoritarian regime that was more openly racist and reactionary as long as it signaled a shift towards more competent leadership that could revive the economy?
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 08:49:09 am »
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Red-White-Red flags are: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%8E%D0%B7
"Russian Civil Union" - National Democracy, Regionalism
http://www.rgs-nd.org/
The thesis:

Russian nationhood.
Russian nation should be recognized as a source of sovereignty and legitimacy of the state, which it forms.

Federalism and Regionalism.
The principle of subsidiarity: the provision of empowerment regions, fiscal autonomy. Election of regional officials at all levels.

A free economy.
Full democracy.
Socially responsible government.
Transformation of the Russian national state in the European welfare state type.

Review of the status of the North Caucasus.
Stepwise folding of subsidizing the North Caucasian republics at the expense of other regions of Russia, the revision of the boundaries of the North Caucasus in order to deduce from them of the border areas with a predominantly Russian population and the evacuation of remaining outside of the Russian population, a system of reinforced controls at the borders of these republics. Forced consolidation of the Russian the status of the titular nation in the Krasnodar and Stavropol territories.

Tightening the law on citizenship and immigration legislation.
The introduction of visa regime with the countries of Central Asia and Transcaucasia.
Military to military contacts, formation of a national militia, the concept of "armed people."

Protecting the environment, protection of monuments of history, culture and architecture. "
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shua
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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 05:24:25 pm »
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I'm trying to understand your translation.
So they want to redraw the  boundaries of the North Caucus republics to reflect ethnicity more closely? And what is it they want to give the Russians in Krasnodar and Stavropol?
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Хahar
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2011, 05:36:56 pm »
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I'm trying to understand your translation.
So they want to redraw the  boundaries of the North Caucus republics to reflect ethnicity more closely? And what is it they want to give the Russians in Krasnodar and Stavropol?

As I understand it, they want to expel non-Russians from Russian areas.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
Insula Dei
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2011, 05:41:18 pm »
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Those don't sound like fun Russian Nationalists. Fun Russian Nationalists would like to annex Alaska to provide the Ukrainians with a new homeland.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2011, 07:59:05 pm »
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"Socially responsible" always seems to translate to "deport all the browns, blacks, gays and hippies".
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« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2011, 08:09:56 pm »
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If Russia goes outright fascist, I'd rather it be the type that marches into Europe and spars with Americans at Berlin while landing in Anchorage.
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