Israel: Religious zealots attack 8-year old girl, Israelis protesting

[Tender Branson]

What's going on there ? They are behaving like the Taliban or the Mullahs in Iran ...

...

TEL AVIV, Israel -- Hundreds of Israelis protested for a second day Wednesday against religious extremists who have targeted women and enforced strict division of the sexes in public life.

More than 250 women marched on Tel Aviv's Rothschild Boulevard, chanting, "This isn't Iran" and "We won't stop singing."



On Tuesday night, thousands of protesters converged on the Jerusalem suburb of Beit Shemesh, where a shy, 8-year-old schoolgirl has unwittingly found herself on the front line of Israel's latest religious war.

Naama Margolese is a ponytailed, bespectacled second-grader who is afraid of walking to her religious Jewish girls school for fear of ultra-Orthodox extremists who have spat on her and called her a "whore" for dressing "immodestly."

Her plight has drawn new attention to the simmering issue of religious coercion in Israel, and the increasing brazenness of extremists in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community.

"When I walk to school in the morning, I used to get a tummy ache because I was so scared ... that they were going to stand and start yelling and spitting," the girl said softly in an interview with the Associated Press on Monday. "They were scary. They don't want us to go to the school."

The girls school that Naama attends in Beit Shemesh, to the west of Jerusalem, is on the border between an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood and a community of modern Orthodox Jews, many of them U.S. immigrants like Naama.

The ultra-Orthodox consider the school, which moved to its present site at the beginning of the school year, an encroachment on their territory. Dozens of black-hatted men jeer and physically accost the girls almost daily, claiming their very presence is a provocation.

Beit Shemesh has long experienced friction between the ultra-Orthodox, who make up about half the city's population, and other residents. And residents say the attacks at the school, attended by about 400 students, have been going on for months. Last week, after a local TV channel reported about the school and interviewed Naama's family, a national uproar ensued.

The televised images of Naama sobbing as she walked to school shocked many Israelis, elicited statements of outrage from the country's leadership, sparked a Facebook page with nearly 10,000 followers dedicated to "protecting little Naama" and demonstrations in her honor. As the case has attracted attention, extremists have heckled and thrown eggs and rocks at journalists.

Beit Shemesh's growing ultra-Orthodox population has erected street signs calling for the separation of sexes on the sidewalks, dispatched "modesty patrols" to enforce a chaste female appearance and hurled stones at offenders and outsiders. Walls of the neighborhood are plastered with signs exhorting women to dress modestly in closed-necked, long-sleeved blouses and long skirts.

The segregation of women in Israel in ultra-Orthodox areas is nothing new, and critics accuse the government of turning a blind eye.

The ultra-Orthodox are perennial king-makers in Israeli coalition politics. They receive generous government subsidies, and police have traditionally been reluctant to enter their communities.

http://www.freep.com/article/20111229/NEWS07/112290477/Israelis-protest-against-religious-extremists-after-girl-accosted-on-way-to-school

[Tender Branson]

I have read somewhere that the ultra-Orthodox only account for about 10-15% of Israel's population right now, but their share among new-borns is approaching 35-40% !

Does anyone with knowledge from Israel know more about this, and what the exact figures and trends are ? Because if true, the ultra-Orthodox will soon have a far bigger percentage in the total population and also more influence in politics.

This is similar to parts of the US (Mormons), which are also very conservative and have twice the birth rate of normal Americans.

[Hash]

But if we call them reactionary sh**tpoops, we'll get called names.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

We've been letting the 'zlimz do this kinda stuff for decades, let Israel get in it's good share.

[danny]

The people that were attacking the girls are related to the Neturei Karta, the group that goes around doing this:

They think Israel should be destroyed and replaced with a Palestinian one and are hated by the vast majority of ultra orthodox (and of course other Jews).

[danny]

But if we call them reactionary sh**tpoops, we'll get called names.

Not by Israelis, who also hate these people, who when they're not doing crap like this spend their time attending anti Israel protests and meeting with Ahmadinejad at holocaust denial conferences.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

But if we call them reactionary sh**tpoops, we'll get called names.

False.  As Danny said, these people are not liked in Israel and do not represent anywhere near a majority of people.  But you're just trying to insult Israel, so I don't know why I bother to correct you.

[Frodo]

Israel had better be careful -if it keeps going down this path of religious zealotry, they will be hard-pressed to find support in the United States outside the Christian Right.  And I will be among those who will have turned their backs on Israel. 

[Hash]

But if we call them reactionary sh**tpoops, we'll get called names.

False.  As Danny said, these people are not liked in Israel and do not represent anywhere near a majority of people.  But you're just trying to insult Israel, so I don't know why I bother to correct you.

Actually, I admit that I was wrong and spoke through my hat. I had never heard that those sh**theads were hated in Israel, because none of the things I heard about the incident had mentioned that. It's rather interesting, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying that a good part of the ultra-orthodox folks are reactionaries whose positions on most issues relating to gender and morals is hardly better than those of the Salafists. I actually like Israel as a country, so you're just assuming stupid things (yet again!) because you hate me; but, on that matter, my general point was that when we criticize the reactionaries in Israel we're told that we're "insulting Israel", yet we can go on and throw panic attacks about the MB without being told we're "insulting Egypt/Arabs". Double-standard much?

Anyhow, please stop reading people's minds and assuming inanities like that, it's rather annoying.

[danny]

Israel had better be careful -if it keeps going down this path of religious zealotry, they will be hard-pressed to find support in the United States outside the Christian Right.  And I will be among those who will have turned their backs on Israel. 

You would turn your back on Israel because a bunch of anti Israel activists who want Israel destroyed attacked a little girl? That makes no sense.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Israel had better be careful -if it keeps going down this path of religious zealotry, they will be hard-pressed to find support in the United States outside the Christian Right.  And I will be among those who will have turned their backs on Israel. 

You would turn your back on Israel because a bunch of anti Israel activists who want Israel destroyed attacked a little girl? That makes no sense.

The American populaces support for Israel is not as strong as many think. I think Israel is a valuable ally and friend, but I  get annoyed by Americas obsession with Israel. 9/11, and every problem in the Middle East we suffer is blowback for us just going in, pushing the Israelis aside, and pretending we know best. I also despise how some candidates for the GOP (Bachmann, Santorum) are willing to send thousands of Americans into Iran to die at Ben Netanyahus whim.

Heres a good example: I have been at my Uncles for the last few days. He traps wild pigs during his spare time, and, I for the first time got to kill one. My Uncle and I preceded to clean it, even though both of us our rather new (my Uncles been in this for a year or so). We could of had some friends we knew come out and help us, but we did it ourselves. Some things we just need to do ourselves. And when it comes to Iran, thats what Israel has to do.

[Frodo]

Israel had better be careful -if it keeps going down this path of religious zealotry, they will be hard-pressed to find support in the United States outside the Christian Right.  And I will be among those who will have turned their backs on Israel.  

You would turn your back on Israel because a bunch of anti Israel activists who want Israel destroyed attacked a little girl? That makes no sense.

No -as I stated in my post, I am referring to a disturbing trend in which the Orthodox Jews are gaining ever more power and influence within Israel (this is merely an example), potentially to the point by which the secular democratic-socialist foundation of this nation could be undermined.  If this were to ever take place, I guarantee that nearly all support for Israel in the United States would collapse, and it could well find itself being cut loose.  

[dead0man]

<snicker>

Nice try though, A for effort.

[minionofmidas]

So who do these nonzionist ultra-orthodox vote for?

[republicanism]

Not at all, as the oppose the state of Israel fundamentally. Would be my guess at least.

Don't think they vote for the Arab lists, and all the other parties are basically Zionist (or communist) ---> not a choice for the Neturei Karta guys.

[danny]

So who do these nonzionist ultra-orthodox vote for?

They don't, in fact they put up posters before the elections saying how it is against god to vote in the "Zionist elections".

[minionofmidas]

So who do these nonzionist ultra-orthodox vote for?

They don't, in fact they put up posters before the elections saying how it is against god to vote in the "Zionist elections".

Heh, cool.

Are they the only ultra-orthodox in this suburb, or are they one of several groups there?

[danny]

So who do these nonzionist ultra-orthodox vote for?

They don't, in fact they put up posters before the elections saying how it is against god to vote in the "Zionist elections".

Heh, cool.

Are they the only ultra-orthodox in this suburb, or are they one of several groups there?

I don't there are more than a few hundred to a couple of thousand Sikrikim  in the whole country, and there are more than 30K ultra orthodox in that suburb alone.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Seriously though; This will become a huge issue as time goes on. If Israel is a "Jewish Country" then why not "as Jewish as it gets", and if it's not, then why not a one state solution?

[Frodo]

It would be interesting to see if there is a poll that asks Americans if they support Israel as a (secular) democracy, or as a Jewish state.  Namely, what do they place a greater premium on? 

[Insula Dei]

I understand these people are a very small minority even within the Ultra-Orthodox parts of Israeli society.

[The Mikado]

It would be interesting to see if there is a poll that asks Americans if they support Israel as a (secular) democracy, or as a Jewish state.  Namely, what do they place a greater premium on? 

Have you ever heard the (tired, but still somewhat accurate) line "Israel wants three things: to be a democracy, a Jewish state, and to possess the West Bank.  It can have any two out of the three?"