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Author Topic: Canada General Discussion  (Read 93091 times)
RogueBeaver
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« Reply #250 on: February 14, 2012, 07:02:05 pm »
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Here's the presser. He concedes everything but the two vital points: separatism references are out of line and that he made a mistake. No one is questioning his patriotism or federalism (double strawmanning), just his political judgment. Properly used, this sort of thing can be very useful to his career- but only if properly used.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Politics/1244504890/ID=2196736852



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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
RogueBeaver
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« Reply #251 on: February 14, 2012, 07:27:49 pm »
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He is a fantastic strategist.

I hear that he's a brilliant chess player and approaches political strategy with a similar "ten moves ahead" long-term strategic view.

Indeed, but definitely not on tactics. At least once every few weeks something crops up, as with any government. In French we call that sort of strategic thinking etapisme. It was pioneered here by Sir John A. - I'm slightly paraphrasing but the quote is essentially "I take the long view, but they couldn't forego exulting in a temporary triumph." Layton was also a master of this game, one of the reasons why he and Harper bonded (and enjoyed simultaneous electoral success last year) despite their political differences. Layton's gone. Rae is certainly capable of it, we'll see if he can pull it off. Ditto for Topp and Mulcair.


Not all PMs are like that though. Pierre Trudeau was a good policy strategist on national unity but never cared much about electoral strategy, else he'd have made very different policy choices than he did. Mulroney on most issues was a good policy strategist but in the long term failed at electoral strategy. Chretien was a fantastic tactician but a godawful strategist electorally. Harper's the reverse.
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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« Reply #252 on: February 15, 2012, 01:23:14 pm »
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Why would Trudeau say this!?

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/02/14/graeme-hamilton-justin-trudeau-loyal-to-canada-up-to-a-point/
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #253 on: February 15, 2012, 01:36:48 pm »
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We just spent the better part of a page discussing that. He's made this point for years, but in an responsible way. We all know he's a consummate dramatist at the best of times. (As he reminded us at the presser) My best guess is that he's bored as a backbencher ever since Rae tossed him from Shadow Cabinet last May and wanted to throw a grenade to stir up trouble. In the medium term, time and responsibility (which depends entirely on Rae's whim) will probably cure him of that hotheadedness, or at least he'll learn how to control it. Absolutely necessary if he's really set on fulfilling his prime ministerial ambition.


http://www.cyberpresse.ca/la-tribune/sherbrooke/201005/12/01-4279688-trudeau-comprend-que-les-quebecois-soient-cyniques.php
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
RogueBeaver
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« Reply #254 on: February 15, 2012, 03:29:33 pm »
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IMO: Pull C-30, keep C-15.

http://www.canada.com/news/Tandt%2BConservatives%2Bcommon%2Bsense%2Bsave%2Bbizarre%2Bcrime%2Bfixation/6152522/story.html

Somewhere between these two. I still think the best slot for him right now is Natural Resources. Nothing to do with "values" and a subject on which he holds explicitly centrist views.

 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/silver-powers/justin-trudeau-jumps-the-shark/article2339369/

http://blogs.canada.com/2012/02/15/whos-kidding-who-justin-trudeau-could-take-quebec/

I respect Hebert a lot, but this column sounds awfully Simpsonian.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1131856--hebert-harper-s-alienation-of-quebec-just-what-the-liberals-need

QP: Jets and pensions.
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



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« Reply #255 on: February 15, 2012, 03:49:14 pm »
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Very ironic than Harper destroyed the Census because it was "invasive on the private life", while C-30 is way more invasive.

And C-15 is probably anticonstituonnal.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #256 on: February 15, 2012, 04:02:33 pm »
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Then either amend C-15 or use the notwithstanding clause. By 2015 most of the SCOC justices will be Harper appointees, so he can reintroduce it then if necessary.

I agree with Toews and Trudeau (partial redemption for yesterday?) here: this sort of sleazy sh**t has no business in our politics.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/anonymous-twitter-user-turns-tables-on-tory-champion-of-e-snooping-bill/article2339463/
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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« Reply #257 on: February 15, 2012, 04:14:42 pm »
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From what we saw, his appointees are way more often in the majority (of the court) than on the side of the government.
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« Reply #258 on: February 15, 2012, 08:17:07 pm »
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Fat chance Dad cuts harder than Mike Harris.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/02/15/andrew-coyne-drummond-report-signals-start-of-dalton-mcguintys-lean-years/
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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« Reply #259 on: February 15, 2012, 10:48:30 pm »
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Again?

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/02/15/liberal-mp-accuses-ndp-of-dirty-tricks
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
Hatman
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« Reply #260 on: February 15, 2012, 11:55:44 pm »
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Excellent. She should have resigned. I respect her right to not want to be an NDPer, but I don't respect her choice to stay in the house with a party she was not elected as a member of.
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« Reply #261 on: February 16, 2012, 12:00:55 am »
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Oh, her, again?

Good thing than such a whiner left the party.
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« Reply #262 on: February 16, 2012, 12:08:33 am »
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If nothing else, it would be a useful test of those (IMO, bogus) polls showing the Grits leading here. On the matter of defections we're in agreement. I just don't agree with this sort of harassment, whether it's my party doing it to Cotler or yours doing it to her.

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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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« Reply #263 on: February 16, 2012, 12:12:06 am »
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It will take a few more years of Dad before this sort of slashing can take place (under a PC government), especially in the so-called "fenced" areas. Mike Harris' premiership needed Bob Rae's.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1132127--cohn-drummond-report-merely-the-end-of-the-beginning

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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
RogueBeaver
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« Reply #264 on: February 16, 2012, 11:30:13 am »
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Ex-ce-llent.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tories-unveil-bill-to-thwart-bogus-refugees/article2340521/
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
RogueBeaver
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« Reply #265 on: February 16, 2012, 03:08:58 pm »
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Immigration bill, gun registry, C-30.
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
RogueBeaver
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« Reply #266 on: February 16, 2012, 05:24:56 pm »
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Ugh. Lisee is a vile RL troll. I mean really, he basically argued that withdrawing Bill 150 made Bou-Bou a race traitor.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/342813/combat-extreme-lisee-germain

EDIT: I threw up a little after reading some of the comments.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:28:39 pm by RogueBeaver »Logged

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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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« Reply #267 on: February 17, 2012, 08:12:56 am »
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I hadn't followed this, but reading up on C-30, this government sure does hate freedom a whole lot. What a bunch of moralfags.
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« Reply #268 on: February 17, 2012, 08:06:32 pm »
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Speaking of Bill 30, LOL:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/anonymous-twitter-user-turns-tables-on-tory-champion-of-e-snooping-bill/article2339463/
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #269 on: February 17, 2012, 08:12:21 pm »
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That's not funny, it's vile shiit which has no place in our public discourse.
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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« Reply #270 on: February 17, 2012, 08:24:38 pm »
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That's not funny, it's vile shiit which has no place in our public discourse.

Sorry, but I'm not able to have pity for a man which is transforming Canada in a police state and who says than opponents of his project are allies of paedophiles.

He searched it.
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« Reply #271 on: February 17, 2012, 08:28:49 pm »
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That's not funny, it's vile shiit which has no place in our public discourse.

No, it's pretty funny.

When you say "everyone against my bill supports child pornography", you get what's coming to you. You want to fight dirty, prepare to fight dirty. Besides, it's his own fault he chose to have an affair with his kid's babysitter.

Reminds a lot of Republicans who do stuff like this. Like, Newt Gingrich.
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« Reply #272 on: February 17, 2012, 10:03:31 pm »
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Coyne's doing what his fellow At Issue panelists did last night: overanalyzing this. If they're spilling so much ink over a fairly minor incident, imagine how much ink they'll spill if/when the Musketeer runs for leader. Only Harper himself will get more...

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/02/17/andrew-coyne-the-problem-with-justin-trudeaus-petty-separatism-threat-is-that-its-so-commonplace/

Yaffe's opinion is mine.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2012/02/17/justin-trudeau-not-ready-for-prime-time/
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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« Reply #273 on: February 17, 2012, 10:12:34 pm »
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Maher agrees with you guys on Toews. My real objection is that we don't have that tradition up here... were this the US I'd be fine with it. To each country its own politico-journalistic tradition.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Maher%2BToews%2Bmade%2Bhimself%2BTwitter%2Btarget%2Bwith%2Bpornographers%2Bcrack/6171839/story.html

I never liked what I heard of this course, but the ruling makes sense.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/02/16/supreme-court-canada-religion-education-challenge.html

Take it as a badge of honour.

http://www.newwestnewsleader.com/news/139478293.html
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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« Reply #274 on: February 17, 2012, 10:18:04 pm »
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Hypocrisy should be revealed. Practice what you preach, and all that. It's terrible to have to bring up people's personal lives, but I dont want a person who has led such an immoral life such as Toews lecturing others about their immoralities.
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