Canada General Discussion

[BritishDixie]

I know little about Canadian Politics. One question, is the Liberal Party socially and fiscally liberal, or is it one of those "liberal" parties which aren't really fiscally right wing, like they would have been at the start of the 20th century.

[Senator MaxQue]

I know little about Canadian Politics. One question, is the Liberal Party socially and fiscally liberal, or is it one of those "liberal" parties which aren't really fiscally right wing, like they would have been at the start of the 20th century.

Depends of their leaders of their mood. Last year, they managed to attack the NDP from the left and the Conservatives from the right on economy in the same week.

On average, it's near the center, through.

[Holmes]

I know little about Canadian Politics. One question, is the Liberal Party socially and fiscally liberal, or is it one of those "liberal" parties which aren't really fiscally right wing, like they would have been at the start of the 20th century.

Depends of their leaders of their mood.

And also the mood of voters. And region.

[Hatman]

The Liberals lack a coherent ideology. They are what you want them to be.

The party started as being pro-free trade, pro business etc, pro immigration, pro US then some wars came along, and they became pro-welfare state (one wonders if they would have gone that direction without pressure from the CCF/NDP). During the Trudeau years, the party was quite socially liberal, even to the left of the NDP, and were economically left of centre as well. By the free trade election of 1988, they had done a 180 on their platform of 100 years ago. Then came the recession of the early 1990s, and the party was forced to the right economically, and that's where they were the last time they were in power.

[You kip if you want to...]

The Liberals lack a coherent ideology. They are what you want them to be.

The party started as being pro-free trade, pro business etc, pro immigration, pro US then some wars came along, and they became pro-welfare state (one wonders if they would have gone that direction without pressure from the CCF/NDP). During the Trudeau years, the party was quite socially liberal, even to the left of the NDP, and were economically left of centre as well. By the free trade election of 1988, they had done a 180 on their platform of 100 years ago. Then came the recession of the early 1990s, and the party was forced to the right economically, and that's where they were the last time they were in power.

That's just what Liberal parties do...

[RogueBeaver]

Supremes will hear the Etobicoke Centre case in a week. If they order a by-election the Liberals get that seat back.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-blog/2012/07/supreme-court-watch-mark-your-calendars-etobicoke-centre-denizens.html

[RogueBeaver]

Bev Oda is resigning from Parliament at month's end. Before anyone asks about the by-election, Durham is a rock-solid Tory seat. And good riddance to her.

 http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/03/minister-bev-oda-to-resign-from-post/

[Sibboleth]

Hey, the NDP won in that area in 1990...

[RogueBeaver]

So this looks like confirmation that a shuffle is indeed pending. MacKay, Toews, Paradis and Fantino are all in varying degrees of trouble so let's see if Harper moves them. Chris Alexander is tipped by some Hillsters to take over Oda's ministry, unless he stays as MacKay's PS.

[Foucaulf]

Says quite a bit about Canadian politics that the scandal which broke Oda's back was her ordering a $16 glass of orange juice.

Fantino and Toews are probably the most likely to be kicked out, followed by MacKay and Paradis (only one of the four I think will stay). The thing with Chris Alexander is his perfect resume as Canada's ambassador to Afghanistan, coupled with general inoffensiveness. I keep thinking Clement will be moved around somewhere despite all insider talk to the contrary.

[RogueBeaver]

If anyone stays it'll be MacKay. He deserves a demotion rather than a lateral move IMO but Harper won't do it. Toews might get that judgeship he's wanted for years, LeBel replaces Paradis. Fantino was a complete dud and was put there because Harper wanted to further weaken MacKay. Why else resurrect a position last held by the dud of duds- Pierre Sevigny?

More analysis on Oda.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1221037--analysis-bev-oda-goes-away-quietly-true-to-form-in-harper-s-ottawa

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/07/03/john-ivison-bev-odas-downfall-rooted-in-the-kind-of-entitlement-she-was-trying-to-get-rid-of/

[Senator MaxQue]

The problem is than MacKay is the former and last PC leader, so firing him would send a signal which could be harmful to him.

[RogueBeaver]

The problem is than MacKay is the former and last PC leader, so firing him would send a signal which could be harmful to him.

MacKay has no influence in the party. Nor do any of the Reds. Harper doesn't want to deal with the media whining so he'll move MacKay laterally. He's not a bad minister but needs a domestic portfolio. Became a creature of his department rather than running it, even before the F-35 clusterfark.

[Hatman]

Ooh, another by-election.

NDP never finished higher than third here until 2011. They finished 4th in 2008. Although, as Al pointed out the seat went NDP provincially in 1990. (well, both seats the federal riding presently covers, Durham East and Durham--York)

ETA: Durham East also went NDP in 1975.

[Senator MaxQue]

The problem is than MacKay is the former and last PC leader, so firing him would send a signal which could be harmful to him.

MacKay has no influence in the party. Nor do any of the Reds.

Oh, I know that. I'm talking of the media which would say than Harper is trying to get rid of the PCers and than the new Conservative Party is Reform/Alliance in other clothes.

[RogueBeaver]

Somehow I'm not surprised.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/insider-prompting-led-oda-to-step-down-ahead-of-cabinet-shuffle-source/article4386157/

[RogueBeaver]

Bourque is reporting that Erin O'Toole will be the Tory nominee to replace Oda in Durham when the by-election is called. No link yet, on their front page.

[Senator MaxQue]

Too bad than they didn't chose a true conservative, but a corporate sellout.

[RogueBeaver]

Heenan has also hosted PET and the Strangler, so it isn't completely blue. Besides he won't be replacing Oda as minister, just as the Member. Alexander probably gets Oda's job.

[Senator MaxQue]

Heenan has also hosted PET and the Strangler, so it isn't completely blue.

Oh, I know that, hence the comment. Heehan Blaikie doesn't care about the party, as long it passes laws enlarging the powers of big business. It also hosted the "commissionner" Bastarache, which cared more about Jean Charest than about truth.

Not a fan of them.

They are simply neoliberal.

[RogueBeaver]

For once, I largely agree with Simpson.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/time-to-shuffle-the-deck-but-harpers-short-on-aces/article4387111/

Facepalm.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/07/04/weston-naval-helicopter-delays.html

[RogueBeaver]

Headdesk doesn't begin to describe this. Replacing dead weight with dead weight and keeping useless portfolios lying around. :mad: :mad:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/harper-makes-slight-cabinet-shuffle/article4390615/

[Holmes]

Your first error was believing Harper is capable of rational and sound decisions. You've much to learn.

[RogueBeaver]

Yeah he's a crap personnel manager. TBH I didn't expect anything huge in this shuffle, it goes against his MO, but replacing dead weight with dead weight... yeesh.

[Hashemite]

Wow, much ado for nothing. Still, I would have hoped somebody who seems to have at least half of his brain cells like Chris Alexander could have gotten the CIDA portfolio instead of that blowhard moron Fantino. What a douche.

This was another example of the Conservative Party's legendary competence and showcase of its talents! Stay tuned for more!