Scottish Independence Referendum 2014

[Sibboleth]

The SNP would settle for it though; that is perhaps their long game.

Oh, it's easy to see why the SNP would settle for it (long term, even). It's slightly harder to see what any shade of unionist would though. Except, maybe, for the tartan-shortbread-and-the-Queen variety, but they all vote Nat these days anyway.

[Vasall des Midas]

There is no other shade of Unionist. There are people who would oppose independence, but most of them would not identify as "Unionist". Unless it's in an Ulster context perhaps - and even those are not a majority of opponents of Scottish independence (and some of them are probably for, anyways. How else does the SNP poll reasonably well in the proddy parts of Glasgow?)

Though they don't all vote Nat - who do you think peoples the remaining Con vote in rural North East Scotland? All English transplants?

[Sibboleth]

There is no other shade of Unionist. There are people who would oppose independence, but most of them would not identify as "Unionist". Unless it's in an Ulster context perhaps - and even those are not a majority of opponents of Scottish independence (and some of them are probably for, anyways. How else does the SNP poll reasonably well in the proddy parts of Glasgow?)

Little 'u'

Though you could always import the Canadian term 'federalist', I guess.

Though they don't all vote Nat - who do you think peoples the remaining Con vote in rural North East Scotland? All English transplants?

Oh, that was just a sneer

[afleitch]

So here we go:

A simple YES/NO question.
No turnout rules or thresholds; simple majority YES vote required in line with 1997 referendum.
16 and 17 year olds granted the right to vote.
Spending limits for political parties/pressure groups and individual donors.
Right to vote determined by residency in Scotland – British and Commonwealth citizens, citizens of other EU nations resident in Scotland, members of the House for Lords and resident stationed members of the armed forces.

[You kip if you want to...]

And Salmond's wanting a leading question: "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independant country?"

[afleitch]

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/poll-scotland-voters-support

A poll in The Staggers (Never heard of the outfit)

Should Scotland become independent?

YES 44%
NO 45%

[You kip if you want to...]

Has to be said that everytime Dave opens his mouth about this, it must be gaining 'Yes' quite a few votes. It's not like he's Jean Chretien.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I'm slightly paraphrasing, but here is an article from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16749576

headline - Teddy was right: Lord Empey

The former Northern Ireland Executive minister was speaking during a debate in the House of Lords about the Scotland Bill, when he said that "Teddy's claim that Scottish moves would have a greater impact on Northern Ireland than it would on England or Wales is 100% accurate. People in Northern Ireland would have a foreign country on one side of us and a foreign country on the other side of us We would end up like West Pakistan. We are all hewn from the same rock. Just imagine the situation we would be placed in."

[Sibboleth]

Reg Empty is an idiot, even by the standards of ex-Vanguard dunderheads that led the UUP to its electoral grave.

[Јas]

I didn't realise Reg Empey's mutterings were considered newsworthy anymore.

[Tender Branson]

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/poll-scotland-voters-support

A poll in The Staggers (Never heard of the outfit)

Should Scotland become independent?

YES 44%
NO 45%

"This exclusive poll for the New Statesman was carried out by ICD Research, powered by ID Factor, from 21-22 January 2012 and is based on a sample of 1,000 UK responses, of which 85 were Scottish."

LOLZ.

MoE = +/- 20% ?

[asexual trans victimologist]

I...I wasn't aware that polls could be this sh**tty. I'm honestly impressed.

[You kip if you want to...]

I'm slightly paraphrasing, but here is an article from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16749576

headline - Teddy was right: Lord Empey

The former Northern Ireland Executive minister was speaking during a debate in the House of Lords about the Scotland Bill, when he said that "Teddy's claim that Scottish moves would have a greater impact on Northern Ireland than it would on England or Wales is 100% accurate. People in Northern Ireland would have a foreign country on one side of us and a foreign country on the other side of us We would end up like West Pakistan. We are all hewn from the same rock. Just imagine the situation we would be placed in."

Northern Ireland is totally like West Pakistan.

[Vasall des Midas]

And we know what the East Pakistanis did as a result.

Reg Empey clearly doesn't, though. I presume he means East Pakistan, not West Pakistan, as the statement's few shreds of coherence disintegrate into thin air otherwise.

[ObserverIE]

I'm slightly paraphrasing, but here is an article from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16749576

headline - Teddy was right: Lord Empey

The former Northern Ireland Executive minister was speaking during a debate in the House of Lords about the Scotland Bill, when he said that "Teddy's claim that Scottish moves would have a greater impact on Northern Ireland than it would on England or Wales is 100% accurate. People in Northern Ireland would have a foreign country on one side of us and a foreign country on the other side of us We would end up like West Pakistan. We are all hewn from the same rock. Just imagine the situation we would be placed in."

Ah, good. Reg Empty resurrects the old "people = Unionists" equation, as if the other 40% of the Northern Ireland population were extra-terrestrials. Hadn't heard that one in a decade or so. Mullets, shoulder pads and bubble perms to follow in short order,

[You kip if you want to...]

Northern Irish politicians are... strange.

[ObserverIE]

Northern Irish politicians are... strange.

Failed ones are even stranger.

[You kip if you want to...]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/29/alex-salmond-says-uk-maintained-independence-queen_n_1239859.html?ref=uk

What?

And btw, I read an article by a pollster that if his firm used Salmond's "Do you agree...?" question, they'd get panned for it. So true. It's basic Year 10 GCSE Maths that "Do you agree" will give an unfair outcome.

[afleitch]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/29/alex-salmond-says-uk-maintained-independence-queen_n_1239859.html?ref=uk

What?

Well he's right. Scotland and the rest of Britain would still be in a 'personal union'; for the purposes of Her Majesty, her Kingdom would be united, as it was from 1603-1707

[Χahar]

It wouldn't be part of the UK any more than Canada is, though.

[You kip if you want to...]

Yeah, so they'd have a Governor-General and everything basically?

[patrick1]

Scottish independence: What happens to UK defence?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16634194

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of consensus or thought going into this issue and the implications.

[afleitch]

Yeah, so they'd have a Governor-General and everything basically?

No. As Scotland is a Kingdom not a Dominion.

[YL]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/29/alex-salmond-says-uk-maintained-independence-queen_n_1239859.html?ref=uk

What?

Well he's right. Scotland and the rest of Britain would still be in a 'personal union'; for the purposes of Her Majesty, her Kingdom would be united, as it was from 1603-1707

But there was no United Kingdom from 1603-1707: there was a Kingdom of England and a Kingdom of Scotland, which had the same monarch.  (Ignoring 1649-1660, of course.)  I assume that if Scotland votes Yes then the situation would be similar, except that the former would presumably be called the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland or something along those lines.

LOL at Reg Empey, anyway.

[Joe Republic]

So no desire for a republic, then?  If the SNP (and presumably the Tories) are in favor of retaining the monarchy, where would Labour and the Lib Dems stand on it in an already independent Scotland?