Scottish Independence Referendum 2014

[Vasall des Midas]

You could always solve these nomenclatural issues by elevating the Principality to a Kingdom, which would then be a part of the United Kingdom.

[Vasall des Midas]

And, really, (most) Northern Ireland Protestants are ethnically Irish, or more precisely, Protestant Northern Irish. Many of them have family links to Scotland, of course, but then that's true of many Irish Catholics as well you know?

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

If Scotland goes, more people in NI will see this as a change to NI's relationship with what's left of the UK that people in Wales will see as a change to Wales' relationship with what's left of the UK. It's a bigger deal for NI than for Wales. That's the core of my point; and I am thus curious to see how NI would deal with this. Would it cause Nationalism to go on the rise? Would it cause Unionists to want union with, not England, but Scotland? How would Scotland react to the latter? Would England decide to push NI out of the union (they've made some half-arsed attempts at this before)? Would NI Unionists lose their will? Would Ireland make a move on NI? I don't know the answer to these questions, but they would all be opened up by a YES vote for Independence in Scotland, where as Wales would face only two issues (more Devo? Independence?) and England, one (Devo?)

[Die-hard Clockworkfan]

Don't underestimate the mess that would ensue in the rest of Great Britain in the event of a vote for independence.  It would certainly be the end of the Cameron premiership, and probably the end of the Coalition as well (by 2014 I can't see the coalition going on with somebody else at the helm).

Wouldn't an independent Scotland (if it actually comes to pass by 2014) hurt the Labour Party more than the Conservatives?  

Yes, but not as much as people assume. It wouldn't have made the slightest difference to the results from 1997-2005 for example in terms of seats; there would still have been a Labour majority. It would make 2015 more difficult for Labour yes with the new seats being factored in too.

In the long term a Yes vote for independence would make it more difficult (although certainly not impossible) for Labour to win a majority.  In the short term it could bring down the Coalition.

[Јas]

I am thus curious to see how NI would deal with this. Would it cause Nationalism to go on the rise?

No

Would it cause Unionists to want union with, not England, but Scotland?

No

How would Scotland react to the latter?

n/a

Would England decide to push NI out of the union (they've made some half-arsed attempts at this before)?

No

Would NI Unionists lose their will?

No

Would Ireland make a move on NI?

wtf?!

[Vasall des Midas]

Would some Unionists get the idea that independence in alliance with England might be an option? Possibly. Would it actually be one? Obviously not.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

This idea from Quebec; I'm wondering, if the south of Scotland votes heavily in favour of staying with the UK, but Scotland as a whole votes to go, if there mightn't be a movement to partition the country

[asexual trans victimologist]

I can't imagine that happening, since there's simply no logical place to divide Scotland except maybe the Highland Line, which unless I'm mistaken about recent population dynamics not enough people live north of for that idea to be viable.

[afleitch]

This idea from Quebec; I'm wondering, if the south of Scotland votes heavily in favour of staying with the UK, but Scotland as a whole votes to go, if there mightn't be a movement to partition the country

I can't imagine that happening, since there's simply no logical place to divide Scotland except maybe the Highland Line, which unless I'm mistaken about recent population dynamics not enough people live north of for that idea to be viable.

No. There won't be a movement to partition the country. There will be a reaonably sized objection to it as there are a lot of English settled in the south (and in the Highlands for that matter; map coming soon) and we saw similar patterns in the Devolution votes of 1979 and 1997, but if Scotland goes it alone then the whole nation will. Even if there was a plea to 'stay' by some areas the UK could not and would not pay them any attention.

[Ethelberth]

As you know, there used to be link between Gaelic speaking areas of Ulster and the Scottish Western Islands ( a dialect continuum). There used to be strong links between these population groups on family level etc. That explains the catholic enclaves on Western Isles.

[Јas]

As you know, there used to be link between Gaelic speaking areas of Ulster and the Scottish Western Islands ( a dialect continuum). There used to be strong links between these population groups on family level etc. That explains the catholic enclaves on Western Isles.

The Dál Riada will rise again!

[Χahar]

You could always solve these nomenclatural issues by elevating the Principality to a Kingdom, which would then be a part of the United Kingdom.

Wales isn't actually a Principality, is it? Obviously there's a Prince of Wales, but he doesn't actually exercise any sovereignty in Wales.

[bgwah]

Scottish independence is one of the silliest movements ever.

[Vasall des Midas]

You could always solve these nomenclatural issues by elevating the Principality to a Kingdom, which would then be a part of the United Kingdom.

Wales isn't actually a Principality, is it?

No more than Scotland is a kingdom (despite the usage as a - I was going to say courtesy title, but it's more than that. Charles was formally invested with the office at some silly ceremony in Caernarfon when he turned 21. Which some Welsh separatists tried to plant a bomb at, and got themselves killed in the process.)

[joevsimp]

You could always solve these nomenclatural issues by elevating the Principality to a Kingdom, which would then be a part of the United Kingdom.

Wales isn't actually a Principality, is it? Obviously there's a Prince of Wales, but he doesn't actually exercise any sovereignty in Wales.

he has some ancient feudal perks that the queen has in England(except Cornwall of course, where Chaz is the Duke) the only one I can remember off the top of my head is that he gets first dibs on any Sturgeon caught in Welsh or Cornish rivers

[Colbert]

Scottish independence is one of the silliest movements ever.

Explaination ?

[afleitch]

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2010-2012/0079/amend/am079-o.htm

The Lord's admendments to the Scotland Bill are fun. The Earl of Caithness wants the UK to vote to approve an independence vote in Scotland, not have the result of the Scottish vote apply to Orkney and Shetland and give Rockall to the UK.

[Vasall des Midas]

And Saint Kilda? Can we give that to Ireland?

[Sibboleth]

Read something (well, scan read) that said that the LibDems were going to proposed 'Home Rule' (whatever that means) for Scotland, maybe. Insert one of Dennis Potter's favourite jokes here.

[Vasall des Midas]

the LibDems were going to proposed 'Home Rule' (whatever that means)

Partition.

[You kip if you want to...]

Read something (well, scan read) that said that the LibDems were going to proposed 'Home Rule' (whatever that means) for Scotland, maybe. Insert one of Dennis Potter's favourite jokes here.

It's alright the LibDems coming up with stupid ideas in opposition, but in government? Stupid's just stupid.

[afleitch]

Read something (well, scan read) that said that the LibDems were going to proposed 'Home Rule' (whatever that means) for Scotland, maybe. Insert one of Dennis Potter's favourite jokes here.

It's alright the LibDems coming up with stupid ideas in opposition, but in government? Stupid's just stupid.

As I understand it, the proposal is a 'counter' to independence; full fiscal autonomy. It's actually a very sensible suggestion (though calling it Home Rule is a bit of an anachronism on their part) Indeed it is pissing me off somewhat that no Westminster party has committed itself to that cause. The Scottish Tories could have and should have embraced that form of radicalism several years ago but failed to do so.

That is part of the reason why I'm inclined to vote in favour of independence, because I don't want the status quo and no party is offering me anything better.

On that note, the Scottish Government is due to publish it's consultation paper on independence today.

[Sibboleth]

Functionally there wouldn't be that much of a difference between full fiscal autonomy (with all that that implies) and independence. Which is probably why hardly anyone has been advocating it up until now.

[afleitch]

Functionally there wouldn't be that much of a difference between full fiscal autonomy (with all that that implies) and independence. Which is probably why hardly anyone has been advocating it up until now.

The SNP would settle for it though; that is perhaps their long game.

Salmond is currently speaking. The proposed referendum question will be;

"Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?"

A very basic statement. On the face of it, neutral but deep down not so. 'Independent' is a more positive statement than 'Seperation' (ie, Do you believe Scotland should seperate from the UK and become an independent nation)

[afleitch]

Full consultation here;

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0038/00386122.pdf