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Author Topic: Scottish Independence Referendum 2014  (Read 4416 times)
Sibboleth
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« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2012, 09:24:37 am »
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The SNP would settle for it though; that is perhaps their long game.

Oh, it's easy to see why the SNP would settle for it (long term, even). It's slightly harder to see what any shade of unionist would though. Except, maybe, for the tartan-shortbread-and-the-Queen variety, but they all vote Nat these days anyway.
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2012, 09:27:39 am »
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There is no other shade of Unionist. There are people who would oppose independence, but most of them would not identify as "Unionist". Unless it's in an Ulster context perhaps - and even those are not a majority of opponents of Scottish independence (and some of them are probably for, anyways. How else does the SNP poll reasonably well in the proddy parts of Glasgow?)

Though they don't all vote Nat - who do you think peoples the remaining Con vote in rural North East Scotland? All English transplants?
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



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Sibboleth
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« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2012, 09:31:46 am »
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There is no other shade of Unionist. There are people who would oppose independence, but most of them would not identify as "Unionist". Unless it's in an Ulster context perhaps - and even those are not a majority of opponents of Scottish independence (and some of them are probably for, anyways. How else does the SNP poll reasonably well in the proddy parts of Glasgow?)

Little 'u' Smiley

Though you could always import the Canadian term 'federalist', I guess.

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Though they don't all vote Nat - who do you think peoples the remaining Con vote in rural North East Scotland? All English transplants?

Oh, that was just a sneer Grin
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2012, 09:43:23 am »
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So here we go:

A simple YES/NO question.
No turnout rules or thresholds; simple majority YES vote required in line with 1997 referendum.
16 and 17 year olds granted the right to vote.
Spending limits for political parties/pressure groups and individual donors.
Right to vote determined by residency in Scotland – British and Commonwealth citizens, citizens of other EU nations resident in Scotland, members of the House for Lords and resident stationed members of the armed forces.
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change08
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« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2012, 04:24:45 pm »
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And Salmond's wanting a leading question: "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independant country?"

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afleitch
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« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2012, 02:48:05 pm »
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http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/poll-scotland-voters-support

A poll in The Staggers (Never heard of the outfit)

Should Scotland become independent?

YES 44%
NO 45%
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change08
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« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2012, 08:54:50 pm »
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Has to be said that everytime Dave opens his mouth about this, it must be gaining 'Yes' quite a few votes. It's not like he's Jean Chretien.
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2012, 10:43:54 pm »
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I'm slightly paraphrasing, but here is an article from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16749576

headline - Teddy was right: Lord Empey

The former Northern Ireland Executive minister was speaking during a debate in the House of Lords about the Scotland Bill, when he said that "Teddy's claim that Scottish moves would have a greater impact on Northern Ireland than it would on England or Wales is 100% accurate. People in Northern Ireland would have a foreign country on one side of us and a foreign country on the other side of us We would end up like West Pakistan. We are all hewn from the same rock. Just imagine the situation we would be placed in."
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TEDDY - ARKANSAS - IDS - Liberal Whip



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Sibboleth
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« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2012, 11:03:41 pm »
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Reg Empty is an idiot, even by the standards of ex-Vanguard dunderheads that led the UUP to its electoral grave.
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« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2012, 02:56:43 am »
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I didn't realise Reg Empey's mutterings were considered newsworthy anymore.
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Funny 'cause it's true:
Very few people seriously allow facts to affect their opinions.

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« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2012, 04:26:31 am »
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http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/poll-scotland-voters-support

A poll in The Staggers (Never heard of the outfit)

Should Scotland become independent?

YES 44%
NO 45%

"This exclusive poll for the New Statesman was carried out by ICD Research, powered by ID Factor, from 21-22 January 2012 and is based on a sample of 1,000 UK responses, of which 85 were Scottish."

LOLZ.

MoE = +/- 20% ?
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Nathan
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« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2012, 04:32:24 am »
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I...I wasn't aware that polls could be this sh**tty. I'm honestly impressed.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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change08
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« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2012, 07:36:27 am »
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I'm slightly paraphrasing, but here is an article from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16749576

headline - Teddy was right: Lord Empey

The former Northern Ireland Executive minister was speaking during a debate in the House of Lords about the Scotland Bill, when he said that "Teddy's claim that Scottish moves would have a greater impact on Northern Ireland than it would on England or Wales is 100% accurate. People in Northern Ireland would have a foreign country on one side of us and a foreign country on the other side of us We would end up like West Pakistan. We are all hewn from the same rock. Just imagine the situation we would be placed in."

Northern Ireland is totally like West Pakistan.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2012, 07:40:26 am »
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And we know what the East Pakistanis did as a result.

Reg Empey clearly doesn't, though. I presume he means East Pakistan, not West Pakistan, as the statement's few shreds of coherence disintegrate into thin air otherwise.
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« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2012, 08:31:26 am »
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I'm slightly paraphrasing, but here is an article from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16749576

headline - Teddy was right: Lord Empey

The former Northern Ireland Executive minister was speaking during a debate in the House of Lords about the Scotland Bill, when he said that "Teddy's claim that Scottish moves would have a greater impact on Northern Ireland than it would on England or Wales is 100% accurate. People in Northern Ireland would have a foreign country on one side of us and a foreign country on the other side of us We would end up like West Pakistan. We are all hewn from the same rock. Just imagine the situation we would be placed in."

Ah, good. Reg Empty resurrects the old "people = Unionists" equation, as if the other 40% of the Northern Ireland population were extra-terrestrials. Hadn't heard that one in a decade or so. Mullets, shoulder pads and bubble perms to follow in short order,
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change08
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« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2012, 08:33:27 am »
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Northern Irish politicians are... strange.
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ObserverIE
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« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2012, 08:35:22 am »
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Northern Irish politicians are... strange.

Failed ones are even stranger.
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change08
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« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2012, 10:49:37 am »
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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/29/alex-salmond-says-uk-maintained-independence-queen_n_1239859.html?ref=uk

What?

And btw, I read an article by a pollster that if his firm used Salmond's "Do you agree...?" question, they'd get panned for it. So true. It's basic Year 10 GCSE Maths that "Do you agree" will give an unfair outcome.
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afleitch
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« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2012, 12:23:28 pm »
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Well he's right. Scotland and the rest of Britain would still be in a 'personal union'; for the purposes of Her Majesty, her Kingdom would be united, as it was from 1603-1707
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Хahar
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« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2012, 03:16:40 pm »
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It wouldn't be part of the UK any more than Canada is, though.
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Update reading list

The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
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change08
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« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2012, 03:20:23 pm »
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Yeah, so they'd have a Governor-General and everything basically?
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« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2012, 03:32:25 pm »
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Scottish independence: What happens to UK defence?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16634194

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of consensus or thought going into this issue and the implications.
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afleitch
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« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2012, 04:39:52 pm »
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Yeah, so they'd have a Governor-General and everything basically?

No. As Scotland is a Kingdom not a Dominion.
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YL
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« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2012, 04:31:05 am »
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Well he's right. Scotland and the rest of Britain would still be in a 'personal union'; for the purposes of Her Majesty, her Kingdom would be united, as it was from 1603-1707

But there was no United Kingdom from 1603-1707: there was a Kingdom of England and a Kingdom of Scotland, which had the same monarch.  (Ignoring 1649-1660, of course.)  I assume that if Scotland votes Yes then the situation would be similar, except that the former would presumably be called the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland or something along those lines.

LOL at Reg Empey, anyway.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2012, 04:56:20 am »
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So no desire for a republic, then?  If the SNP (and presumably the Tories) are in favor of retaining the monarchy, where would Labour and the Lib Dems stand on it in an already independent Scotland?
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Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


I just slept for 11 hours, so I should need a nap today, but we'll see.
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