Electricity Fairness Act [debating]

[Junkie]

While I may not be in support, and must be a dumb jock because some of the points being made here a little confusing, I would like to see debate continue.

Nay on the motion to table.

[Yelnoc]

I suggest checking this map.

Rates will need to be scaled up to match reality.  That said, population growth, inflation, and a dozen factors will naturally drive the rates upwards at some point in the future?  What happens then?  If you are going to go through with this, which I strongly advise against, it ought to scale in order to cope with changing situations.

[/peanut gallery]

It does scale up: see Section 1-6.

But wow, electricity in Hawaii is almost triple what I pay here in Georgia? If nothing else, I think it'd at least be good to pass the last bit of the bill.

Ah, I see.  What is the 15 cents based on?

And from Wormy's posts, it seems to me a better way to solve this would be to end the monopoly of power companies.  Perhaps we could nationalize the entire industry?

[/peanut gallery]

EDIT: Don't know why I typed "[/motion to table]"

[Napoleon]

It's funny, everything Marokai says about Wormyguy is even more applicable to himself. You have to hand it to him, he's outdoing himself well.

[Mopsus]

Nay

I tend to think that motions to table are reserved for bills which are not being debated and everyone agrees should be defeated. Since there's still debate going on in this thread, I'd rather let the bill survive for a little while longer before I vote against it .

[Grumpier Than Thou]

On second thought, I'd like to see this debate continue, so I'm changing my vote on the motion to table to nay.

[bgwah]

aye

[Bacon King]

The motion to table fails; debate resumes.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Thank you, Senators.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

I still oppose this bill.

[TJ in Oregon]

I'm proposing this amendment to fix the energy units. Let me be clear, I still oppose this bill; but if it does pass, it should at least have the correct units.

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[Marokai Backbeat]

I accept the amendment as friendly.

Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would say that in a completely free market, a price ceiling would have the effect described by Wormyguy because the motivation to bring sufficient supplies to the market to meet the demand isn't there because the prices are too low. However, electricity doesn't operate that way because the projects, are subsidized to some extent. Therefore, since Canada was mentioned, who built the hydro dams there?

Is the production of supply subsidized and funded by the gov't enough to offset the effect of such a price ceiling in Atlasia?

[Napoleon]

It wont pass. This proposal is extremism in true form and will lead to disaster.

[Marokai Backbeat]

It wont pass. This proposal is extremism in true form and will lead to disaster.

This is insanely dramatic. I respect a decision to vote against this, but not your completely dishonest and unserious freaking out over something that is not really that big of a deal. Regulation like this exists, or has existed, in scattered forms in certain states already, and the rate of increase on the cap is roughly in line with the average increase of electricity prices in the last decade or two.

I feel like we've approached this point in our society where young people have completely forgotten what actually already exists and react to stuff like this as if it's dramatic and new. I remember one of the first things I proposed when I became a Senator in 2009 was codifying some media ownership restrictions in Atlasia. People suddenly jumped on calling me some sort of weird extremist when simpler versions of the law I proposed were already actual law in real life.

No one has shown how this will actually do any harm. No one has argued as to why this is even a bad idea at all. You've been doing some hair-on-fire nonsense and Wormy popped in to compare us to Venezuela and argue against something I wasn't even proposing.

If you're going to oppose this, I would at least ask you to do so like an adult. Every time you oppose something, you make short, ridiculously melodramatic statements. You debate nothing, you propose nothing on your own, and you generally cause as much silly immature trouble as possible. I find it baffling how you've continued to have some sort of high-minded reputation, but your party seems to do a very good job at excusing, and rewarding, your absurd behavior.

This bill aims to implement some sort of national rate regulation for a good reason. States with more regulated electricity markets have lower costs and a lower average increase of electricity rates in comparison to the national average. I actually find that report especially amusing, because I took to talking to Wormyguy on AIM last night after his appearance in this thread, and asked him what he would prefer if he actually had to make a proposal. He argued that we should reduce monopolies and open up electricity markets more to encourage more choice.

Problem is, when greater retail choice is introduced, prices go up even more. Not down. Facts are pretty cool.

If we're going to vote down rate caps, then I at the very least want to hear your input, and others, on re-purposing as a bill designed to increase support for wholesale suppliers of electricity and other public power utilities. If we're going to truly have "retail choice" then we should have a strong public power alternative also competing in all markets. Public power is cheaper and more dependable in this country, and as energy continues to get more and more expensive, we should do our part to provide greater alternatives.

I've also mentioned this in the past, but I would support the creation of a national public hydroelectric utility. Atlasia isn't as naturally gifted as our northern neighbors, but there are still numerous areas we could be scouting out and using to generate electricity. There would at least be enough hydroelectricity, to that end, to power a combined amount equivalent to a couple of our smaller states.

[tpfkaw]

Problem is, when greater retail choice is introduced, prices go up even more. Not down. Facts are pretty cool.

Are you seriously trying to be a self-parody here?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Problem is, when greater retail choice is introduced, prices go up even more. Not down. Facts are pretty cool.

Are you seriously trying to be a self-parody here?

I am offering a re-purposing of this bill to a more modest attempt at supporting wholesale suppliers and small public power utilities, in addition to creating market competition in Hawaii.

The current composition of the act isn't going to get anywhere, so there's barely any sense in arguing over it. Even though, as I said, I still think it's crazy that it's gotten this ridiculously overblown reaction and that people seem to be forgetting things that actually exist, reacting to them as if they're new.

But I digress!

[Marokai Backbeat]

I accept the amendment as friendly.

Senators have 24 hours to object.

24 hours have passed and TJ's amendment is now the official version of the bill.

Still though, I would welcome input on my proposal to re-purpose this bill into something else.

[Junkie]

I accept the amendment as friendly.

Senators have 24 hours to object.

24 hours have passed and TJ's amendment is now the official version of the bill.

Still though, I would welcome input on my proposal to re-purpose this bill into something else.

I would be interested in the direction of this re-purposing.  Are we talking a low income subsidy or a high regional cost subsidy or something else?  If so, how do we fund that?  It is possible I am missing the point, so just looking for a little clarity.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm going to gut out the price ceilings, change the name, and narrow it down to the less controversial section 2, so this bill at least has a chance of accomplishing something very simple and good. Senators have 24 hours to object.

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[Marokai Backbeat]

Consider this amended. I'll open a final vote later if no one has anything more to say.

[TJ in Oregon]

Why should the federal government establish a power company only in Hawaii? Shouldn't Hawaii do that?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Why should the federal government establish a power company only in Hawaii? Shouldn't Hawaii do that?

It would be administered by the local of regional government, merely established by the federal government, I would imagine. Similar to how we set up our healthcare system. (Funded nationally, administered regionally.) The difference would be that, in this case, the federal government would only be establishing Hawaii Community Power, not running it in perpetuity.


I'm also going to go ahead and open this for a final vote, so everyone please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

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Aye

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Nay.

[Junkie]

Aye

[Mopsus]

Aye