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Author Topic: Sanity Act [Rejected]  (Read 1519 times)
Marokai Besieged
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« on: January 14, 2012, 07:55:01 pm »
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Sanity Act

FL 42-2 Game Moderator Reform Act is hereby repealed.



Sponsor: Napoleon
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 09:10:10 pm by Mad Marokai, PPT »Logged

Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 07:56:03 pm »
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Personally I think this is a terrible idea, and Napoleon and I have already been over why 6 months ago when he proposed it the first time in his May-June campaign. Everyone who has been GM admits it's too much of a load to handle themselves. Everyone who has been SoEA and SoIA admitted, before the law was passed, that their positions were pointless without any actual ability to write stories or have any substantial responsibility.

I can't imagine any former GM, SoEA, or SoIA, would ever actually want this bill passed.

Speaking as a former GM, my ability to work with Ben, especially, was a godsend. He wanted several stories, and we worked them out together. I briefly also had Yelnoc as an assistant, it was a relief to delegate to him a few of my responsibilities. If I had to do all of that work on my own, much less would've gotten accomplished overall.

The reason we fought over this issue in the February 2011 campaign for President was because we went months and months without any halfway decent GM after Purple State stepped down. Ask any of them why, and they'll tell you. There is too much to do on your own. No one who hasn't been in any of those three positions can really understand the huge load of work that is always looming over your head. Removing that ability for those three positions to work together and spread out responsibilities would be a huge step back in Game Reform efforts, and more than anything else a completely pointless change.

What do we gain from that? Jack, as far as I can see. If Napoleon actually wants to solve a problem by doing this, what problem is he solving, and what benefits do we get from solving it? How will we have more, and better stories, by passing this law? There is no way we will. Repealing the Game Reform act needlessly handicaps all of those positions and drags us right back to square one. Writing stories would be harder, two out of those three positions would be wastes of time to occupy again, and less and less people than already willing to take those positions, will want them.

I am generally of the opinion that when you're trying to make things better, you add, not subtract. Or at least, when you subtract, you add something else instead. This proposal does neither. It walks back a purely expansionary change that negatively affects no one, and gives nothing in exchange to make our former position any better. It is classic Napoleon 'problem solving.'
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 12:21:53 am »
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Something I've always wondered, and I'm not asking for a response from the sponsor, is, if Oakvale had been elected last February, and he had been the President who pushed this bill (He supported something very similar to this if my memory serves me correct) and got it signed, would we still be seeing multiple failed attempts to get it repealed?
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 10:35:55 am »
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I have not seen a problem with the current system.  Why should we repeal it?
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 11:44:22 am »
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I have not seen a problem with the current system.  Why should we repeal it?
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 05:44:46 pm »
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I urge the Senate to reject this bill.  We've been through this before, and it's already failed.  Let's make this quick.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 07:31:18 pm »
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Still eagerly awaiting any sort of defense of this bill.
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 08:23:24 pm »
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Motion to move to a vote so we can get this defeated?
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 08:47:00 pm »
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Motion to move to a vote so we can get this defeated?

72 hour rule is still in effect.
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 08:55:05 pm »
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Motion to move to a vote so we can get this defeated?

72 hour rule is still in effect.

>:O
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 09:03:25 pm »
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Motion to move to a vote so we can get this defeated?

72 hour rule is still in effect.

>:O


Well we (or rather Marokai) could use UC to waive it, but what are the chances there is atleast 1 Senator not so keen on the idea? Wink
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 09:14:53 pm »
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Motion to move to a vote so we can get this defeated?

72 hour rule is still in effect.

>:O


Well we (or rather Marokai) could use UC to waive it, but what are the chances there is atleast 1 Senator not so keen on the idea? Wink

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 09:23:51 pm »
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Plus, I am actually interested in the defense of this, which has been curiously absent of this debate so far.
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 08:14:12 am »
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Plus, I am actually interested in the defense of this, which has been curiously absent of this debate so far.

I too would like to know the reasoning or necessity of this bill.  If we do not get one, I will stick to my original position and vote against it.  I was hoping that I could get something to consider as there may be something I have not thought of.
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 07:54:39 pm »
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Still eagerly awaiting any sort of defense.
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2012, 11:49:27 pm »
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Marokai, how soon can this be tabled?
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2012, 11:56:49 pm »
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Marokai, how soon can this be tabled?

We could motion to table it right now, but it'll be up for a final vote tomorrow anyway. I'm just a bit disappointed that the sponsor whines about certain issues, but doesn't argue in favor of them, accuses me of being partisan and derelict of my duties, and ignores when I use my discretion slot to benefit his agenda, and would've thrown down all kinds of fire and brimstone if I had used my PPT power to strike this legislation from the que, but lets it waste this entire body's time on the floor instead.

At this point, I would prefer to let it play out until tomorrow evening. If the sponsor has still declined to show up in his own f-ing bill then I will bring it up for a final vote and move on, and won't be afraid to strike his nonsense from the que in the future.
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 12:21:15 am »
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Here's my perspective, if anyone's interested:

This bill in is current form, should not be passed.  It would just place too much back on the GM.

However, I don't feel like the current system is working either.   The duties of the three GM positions are not clearly defined, and two of these positions are also cabinet positions, which I still find confusing about how I am supposed to be relating  their roles to mine.  There's so much overlap in roles between Gm-SoIA and GM-SoEA, and at the same time so much opportunity to expect someone else to be the one to do something.  I have to admit the idea of game events and policy being made by the same person is something I've still not gotten used to.

One idea I have is to just make two GM-type non-cabinet posts.  One would be in charge of budget estimates and forecasts, economic news, analysis, trends, etc.  The other would focus on developing storylines.  There'd be overlap and collaboration, but I think the different emphasis would actually make the GM positions work better together.

You might like that idea or you might not.  In any case, I think this is a good opportunity to consider how to improve game moderation. So maybe don't table it just yet.  Just my 2 c.
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 12:25:24 am »
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I agree with Shua, not necessarily on all the specifics, but that changes need to be made. I've said plenty times before that this bill isn't perfect, and that some clarifications should be made, but an all-out repeal would send us about two steps backwards, while making some positives changes would bring us forward.

For the record, should this somehow pass, being that it would make me pretty much irrelevant as SoIA (That may be the sponsor's goal, not that we'd know what his goals are since he hasn't bothered to show up yet), I would resign. My guess is the SoEA probably feels very similar.
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 12:31:00 am »
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I spoke with constituents about what I saw as an ignorance of the duties of the SoIA position outside of your own legislation during the hearing. Sadly, your post and activity in office seem to confirm that suspicion.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2012, 12:38:37 am »
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Here's my perspective, if anyone's interested:

This bill in is current form, should not be passed.  It would just place too much back on the GM.

However, I don't feel like the current system is working either.   The duties of the three GM positions are not clearly defined, and two of these positions are also cabinet positions, which I still find confusing about how I am supposed to be relating  their roles to mine.

I don't understand how it's that confusing. The GM is the director of those two positions. They do not have equal power to you. You have the veto power over what stories they publish, and you direct them in a general direction toward what to do so you don't have to do everything. The SoEA handles foreign affairs. The SoIA, domestic affairs. There is overlap.. but there's supposed to be. They wouldn't be actual assistants to your work if they didn't have authority over certain areas.

You, as the GM, are supposed to manage those positions and work with them. Your position is above them.

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One idea I have is to just make two GM-type non-cabinet posts.  One would be in charge of budget estimates and forecasts, economic news, analysis, trends, etc.  The other would focus on developing storylines.  There'd be overlap and collaboration, but I think the different emphasis would actually make the GM positions work better together.

I would like it to be known that I basically proposed this exact thing (non-cabinet GM assistant positions) in February of last year, which people thought was redundant. And in some respects, they're right. If you take these powers away from the SoEA and SoIA, those positions become completely meaningless, as they always were before, and as people always argued should have more responsibilities.

With the current system, we give meaning to the SoEA and SoIA while also giving the GM assistants to his work. That is the theory of it, anyway. It is all predicated on having a GM that can actually manage those two other people to work with him, which you seem to be struggling to do. I wouldn't blame current law for that problem, though.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2012, 12:51:23 am »
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I spoke with constituents about what I saw as an ignorance of the duties of the SoIA position outside of your own legislation during the hearing. Sadly, your post and activity in office seem to confirm that suspicion.
Everyone would still like to here your defense of this bill.

I am proud of the job I've done as SoIA, especially considering most of the time I've been in office was over Holidays, and I stand by it. I've started a regional roundabout, which gives citizens an easy access way to check how things are going (the next installment will occur this week). I've also been working with Yelnoc on completing the IDS budget, as well as continue to work with the Mideast Assembly. I've stayed involved and active in Senate affairs, and have a good communication flow with Shua. Perfect? No. But progress is being made, whether you see it or not, and we will continue to progress, whether you like it or not.

 Actually, when this bill is voted down, I hope to work with Shua on a new bill that actually will address the problem, not further complicate it.
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2012, 01:19:04 am »
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So basically, the Game Manager is some sort of Chief of Staff position for Cabinet holders who don't have enough to do. That's really not what I thought I was getting into. That's not the description in the Constitution  (which I don't see how the GM Reform Act squares with anyway.)  

How am I supposed to veto something that's already been published as a story?  "No, sorry everyone, that didn't really happen that way"?   I wouldn't find that very useful thing for me to do.

I don't see any legal right for me to treat the SoIA and SoEA as assistants, as the actual act as modified by amendment refers instead to "co-jurisdiction."  
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2012, 06:17:37 am »
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I say we let it go for a vote and watch it crash and burn
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2012, 06:30:09 am »
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So basically, the Game Manager is some sort of Chief of Staff position for Cabinet holders who don't have enough to do. That's really not what I thought I was getting into. That's not the description in the Constitution  (which I don't see how the GM Reform Act squares with anyway.)

Don't think of it that way, you're not some sort of manager officially, but by virtue of the other two being given supplementary powers, you do become some sort of de-factor manager of those two. They're supposed to report to you about what they're thinking of, they're supposed to help you report what you want. I'm not saying you can command them around or something, but the silent understanding has always been that they help you because your position is the superior one.

Quote
How am I supposed to veto something that's already been published as a story?  "No, sorry everyone, that didn't really happen that way"?   I wouldn't find that very useful thing for me to do.

I don't see any legal right for me to treat the SoIA and SoEA as assistants, as the actual act as modified by amendment refers instead to "co-jurisdiction."  

The amendment to the Game Moderator Reform Act allows you the authority to modify SoIA and SoEA stories as you please, and the Game Moderator position has always been treated as above the others.

As for how you can modify it; if either position is actively subverting your authority, say so. You're actual people, you can self regulate. And hell, isn't "sorry everyone, it didn't really happen that way" essentially how every new GM treats past GM reporting when they disagree?
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