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| | |-+  Should the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance be abolished?
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Question: Should the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance be abolished?
Yes   -34 (59.6%)
No   -23 (40.4%)
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Total Voters: 57

Author Topic: Should the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance be abolished?  (Read 2527 times)
greenforest32
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« on: January 19, 2012, 12:07:35 am »
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Mandating kids to "pledge their allegiance" to the country daily at school is nothing but mindless propaganda.
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shua
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 12:30:16 am »
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Mandating kids to "pledge their allegiance" to the country daily at school is nothing but mindless propaganda.
True, but that doesn't mean the pledge itself should be abolished.
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greenforest32
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 12:44:37 am »
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Mandating kids to "pledge their allegiance" to the country daily at school is nothing but mindless propaganda.
True, but that doesn't mean the pledge itself should be abolished.

I was thinking abolished as a practice but I see my title/question doesn't reflect that.

I should be more clear Tongue
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dead0man
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 12:48:31 am »
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Thankfully nobody is forced to say it heh?
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 11:19:31 am »
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As a foreigner, the whole thing looks more North Korean than American.
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 11:27:48 am »
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Mandating kids to "pledge their allegiance" to the country daily at school is nothing but mindless propaganda.

Agreed.  Though of course someone will come in here and preach about the wonders of nationalist brainwashing.
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2012, 11:39:14 am »
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As a foreigner, the whole thing looks more North Korean than American.

Unsurprisingly, as it was written by a socialist and popularized by the fascist Wilson administration's scaremongering over "disloyal" immigrants.
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2012, 12:02:22 pm »
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As a foreigner, the whole thing looks more North Korean than American.

Unsurprisingly, as it was written by a socialist and popularized by the fascist Wilson administration's scaremongering over "disloyal" immigrants.

And let's not forget about the original hand gesture...
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 12:55:48 pm »
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Mandating kids to "pledge their allegiance" to the country daily at school is nothing but mindless propaganda.

1943 SCOTUS decision West Virginia Board of Education vs Barnette decided that students cannot be forced to acknowledge the flag/recite the pledge in public schools.  however this does not mean that significant pressure cannot be applied to the student, as was the case with me in my 11th grade math class, in which my teacher observed me on the first day sitting quietly during the recitation of the pledge.  she called me to her desk and told me that she "knew people who died Over There" and that I must stand.  I informed her of the SCOTUS decision, but she didn't budge.  I then took to reciting the Stalin-era version of the Soviet National Anthem during the pledge.

the next week an anonymous teacher referred me to the school psychologist.  I'll never know exactly which teacher it was, but I have a sneaking suspicion is was the math teacher.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 03:22:26 pm »
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No, you cannot abolish words.
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2012, 10:49:17 pm »
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Mandating kids to "pledge their allegiance" to the country daily at school is nothing but mindless propaganda.

1943 SCOTUS decision West Virginia Board of Education vs Barnette decided that students cannot be forced to acknowledge the flag/recite the pledge in public schools.  however this does not mean that significant pressure cannot be applied to the student, as was the case with me in my 11th grade math class, in which my teacher observed me on the first day sitting quietly during the recitation of the pledge.  she called me to her desk and told me that she "knew people who died Over There" and that I must stand.  I informed her of the SCOTUS decision, but she didn't budge.  I then took to reciting the Stalin-era version of the Soviet National Anthem during the pledge.

the next week an anonymous teacher referred me to the school psychologist.  I'll never know exactly which teacher it was, but I have a sneaking suspicion is was the math teacher.

That's public school for you.  Obey or your life will be hell.

Sad that we live in a society where justice is only something that exists in the public sphere, and where freedom and democracy are only relevant to the ballot box.  We think it's horrible when governments behave arbitrarily, unjustly, and without consent, yet it is seen as perfectly fine, once someone goes to school, goes home, or goes to work.
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2012, 10:52:51 pm »
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Shouldn't a pledge last forever? They act like it only lasts 24 hours. They have cheapened pledges.
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R2D2
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 11:46:58 am »
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Kids have the option not to say it.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 08:56:24 pm »
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Roll Eyes

Considering that it is not mandated, no.
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realisticidealist
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2012, 02:33:06 pm »
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What would "abolishing" the pledge even mean? No one is forced to do it, and it's not mandated by the government, so...
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2012, 01:55:44 pm »
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The Pledge jumped the shark when the words "under God" were added to it in 1954.
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ShadowOfTheWave
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2012, 02:42:35 pm »
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I voted no because of the wording. I don't think anyone should be required to say it, that is all.
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AverroŽs Nix
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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2012, 04:21:03 pm »
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Thankfully nobody is forced to say it heh?

As others have noted, that's not really the case in far too many American public schools.
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Franzl
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2012, 07:32:38 pm »
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It's really a stupid thing to recite every day before school. But it's one of those American patriotism things that is pretty much artificial. Wave the flag, recite the pledge, don't begin a musical without singing the national anthem, etc.

It makes each recital worth less because of the routine, and I doubt the students taking part really know or care what they're saying for the most part.

But hey. USA!
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President John Hay
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« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2012, 10:02:17 pm »
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I think it is interesting how many of you think the Pledge is some fascist, nationalist piece... why dont you direct your outrage to the atrocities commited daily by the thugs in the Middle East who hate Christians, women, gays, Jews, etc

I am going to stop writing in posts like these because it makes me feel sick to think how much outrage you all have towards this country compared to true evil in other nations... thank God people like you weren't in charge during our world wars or when we were fighting for independence. Every one here always says how Reagan could not make it in a GOP primary nowadays- I agree! But when things like the Pledge which are mainstream are being attacked by the left, it shows which extremism is more pervasive
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AverroŽs Nix
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2012, 11:21:57 pm »
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I think it is interesting how many of you think the Pledge is some fascist, nationalist piece... why dont you direct your outrage to the atrocities commited daily by the thugs in the Middle East who hate Christians, women, gays, Jews, etc

Because this thread is devoted to discussing the Pledge. We talk about other things at different times. What's strange about that?
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President John Hay
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 12:00:37 am »
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I think it is interesting how many of you think the Pledge is some fascist, nationalist piece... why dont you direct your outrage to the atrocities commited daily by the thugs in the Middle East who hate Christians, women, gays, Jews, etc

Because this thread is devoted to discussing the Pledge. We talk about other things at different times. What's strange about that?

What is strange is that in the eyes of many leftists- none that have spoken here- the pledge is a more important issue to fight then radical Islam
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FallenMorgan
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2012, 03:03:24 am »
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I think it is interesting how many of you think the Pledge is some fascist, nationalist piece... why dont you direct your outrage to the atrocities commited daily by the thugs in the Middle East who hate Christians, women, gays, Jews, etc

Because this thread is devoted to discussing the Pledge. We talk about other things at different times. What's strange about that?

What is strange is that in the eyes of many leftists- none that have spoken here- the pledge is a more important issue to fight then radical Islam

Herp derp, so let's not focus on this at all and focus on issues one at a time.  Derp.
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« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2012, 03:21:08 am »
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No. It wouldn't accomplish anything because it's not mandatory in the first place. Abolishing it altogether would just serve as a meaningless gesture that would serve no purpose but to satisfy a group of people searching not for pragmatism, but for quixotic, anti-traditional-at-all-costs backlash against the establishment.
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dead0man
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« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2012, 06:57:18 am »
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Thankfully nobody is forced to say it heh?

As others have noted, that's not really the case in far too many American public schools.
I'm sure it happens, but anecdotal evidence isn't worth all that much.  I'm guessing most people (>95%) who stand quietly while the pledge is recited don't take any sh**t.  When they do take sh**t, it should be noted and the people pushing the sh**t should be forced to stop pushing the sh**t.  Yeah, that's an winnable battle, but so is trying to stop murder.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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