Should utilities (electricity, water/sewer, etc) be allowed to run for profit?
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  Should utilities (electricity, water/sewer, etc) be allowed to run for profit?
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Question: Should utilities (electricity, water/sewer, etc) be allowed to run for profit?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Total Voters: 38

Author Topic: Should utilities (electricity, water/sewer, etc) be allowed to run for profit?  (Read 2946 times)
greenforest32
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« on: January 21, 2012, 09:46:59 AM »
« edited: January 21, 2012, 11:07:07 AM by greenforest32 »

My electricity is provided by a publicly traded, for-profit company that profits from the service and pays out dividends to its shareholders. This profit is extracted from the ratepayers and is an unnecessary added cost.

I believe that utilities should not be run for-profit, but rather as at-cost or below-cost (subsidized) public services provided by the government (or a non-profit organization).

Your thoughts?
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TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 02:21:05 PM »

We live in a world where now we want people to conserve electricity, be sustainable, and save the environment, meanwhile wanting to lower utility costs and favoring government subsidies to drive prices down even further so they can use even more electricity, requiring a larger carbon footprint, so then we try to limit carbon emissions and spend even more money on inefficient technologies like solar and wind so we can subsidize the whole mess even further and push us all into an even larger government money-sink. Argh! Sad
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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 02:32:11 PM »

No.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 04:03:20 PM »

Of course not. Only in libertarian fantasyland is this a good idea.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 04:05:22 PM »

We live in a world where now we want people to conserve electricity, be sustainable, and save the environment, meanwhile wanting to lower utility costs and favoring government subsidies to drive prices down even further so they can use even more electricity, requiring a larger carbon footprint, so then we try to limit carbon emissions and spend even more money on inefficient technologies like solar and wind so we can subsidize the whole mess even further and push us all into an even larger government money-sink. Argh! Sad

yeah go have competing sewer systems running though Manhattan.  good idea.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 04:11:38 PM »

Private utilities shouldn't exist.
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TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 04:22:47 PM »

We live in a world where now we want people to conserve electricity, be sustainable, and save the environment, meanwhile wanting to lower utility costs and favoring government subsidies to drive prices down even further so they can use even more electricity, requiring a larger carbon footprint, so then we try to limit carbon emissions and spend even more money on inefficient technologies like solar and wind so we can subsidize the whole mess even further and push us all into an even larger government money-sink. Argh! Sad

yeah go have competing sewer systems running though Manhattan.  good idea.

You don't have private networks for utilities (and water sewer you probably don't have private anything at least in urban areas, rural ones however are very different). What you need is a public network with privately generated electricity, much like our road system. Just beacuse we have government-sponsored roads doesn't mean we need government sponsored cars.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2012, 10:35:33 AM »

No. Nationalize them and run them as cheap as possible.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2012, 01:07:01 PM »

I got my electricity bill today. No.
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Frodo
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2012, 01:44:40 PM »

No. Nationalize them and run them as cheap as possible.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This.  The PEPCO debacle in Maryland should serve as a cautionary note to anyone who thinks that the primary focus of a utility company should be to its shareholders. 
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 05:11:22 AM »

No. Nationalize them and run them as cheap as possible.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 06:30:46 AM »

Private utilities shouldn't exist.
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change08
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 04:11:55 PM »

The situation we have in England is clear evidence of why they need to be nationalised.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2012, 04:16:14 PM »

The situation we have in England is clear evidence of why they need to be nationalised.

Exactly. When people in poorer areas only flush their toilet once a day to save money on the ridiculous water prices, you begin to understand why water privatization is an absolutely moronic idea.
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phk
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 04:25:37 PM »


What about solar panels?
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 04:28:02 PM »

We live in a world where now we want people to conserve electricity, be sustainable, and save the environment, meanwhile wanting to lower utility costs and favoring government subsidies to drive prices down even further so they can use even more electricity, requiring a larger carbon footprint, so then we try to limit carbon emissions and spend even more money on inefficient technologies like solar and wind so we can subsidize the whole mess even further and push us all into an even larger government money-sink. Argh! Sad

Stop making sense.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2012, 07:22:21 PM »

I don't think water/sewer practically can practically be run privately, given the nature of the infrastructure necessary for them to run and where the water comes from to begin with. At best the government could contract out the work, but it would have to own the infrastructure.

Electricity is a bit different. The electrical grid itself is the biggest piece of infrastructure, but anyone who can produce electricity can put it on the grid, (IIRC in many places if you put power back onto the grid by generating your own then your electric company has to pay you for it) and as such models exist where multiple companies could be operating on the same infrastructure and therefore compete. In some cases regulation to prevent gouging might be needed, but since the infrastructure does allow for competition of some degree I'm inclined to allow a for profit company to be an available option.
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greenforest32
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2012, 12:10:46 AM »

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29597

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What happened to our spine? Sad
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Mechaman
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2012, 12:32:24 AM »

We live in a world where now we want people to conserve electricity, be sustainable, and save the environment, meanwhile wanting to lower utility costs and favoring government subsidies to drive prices down even further so they can use even more electricity, requiring a larger carbon footprint, so then we try to limit carbon emissions and spend even more money on inefficient technologies like solar and wind so we can subsidize the whole mess even further and push us all into an even larger government money-sink. Argh! Sad

Stop making sense.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2012, 12:49:58 AM »

We live in a world where now we want people to conserve electricity, be sustainable, and save the environment, meanwhile wanting to lower utility costs and favoring government subsidies to drive prices down even further so they can use even more electricity, requiring a larger carbon footprint, so then we try to limit carbon emissions and spend even more money on inefficient technologies like solar and wind so we can subsidize the whole mess even further and push us all into an even larger government money-sink. Argh! Sad

Stop making sense.

So I take it you would all be fine heavily subsidizing alternative forms of electricity generation for American consumers, then?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2012, 09:56:45 AM »

A natural monopoly obviously cannot be allowed to run unregulated.

But it isn't really cheaper to subsidize it. You're just shifting costs based on ideological considerations.
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TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2012, 10:14:02 AM »

We live in a world where now we want people to conserve electricity, be sustainable, and save the environment, meanwhile wanting to lower utility costs and favoring government subsidies to drive prices down even further so they can use even more electricity, requiring a larger carbon footprint, so then we try to limit carbon emissions and spend even more money on inefficient technologies like solar and wind so we can subsidize the whole mess even further and push us all into an even larger government money-sink. Argh! Sad

Stop making sense.

So I take it you would all be fine heavily subsidizing alternative forms of electricity generation for American consumers, then?

Not really. I would tolerate some degree of subsidization of large pieces of infrastructure like dams and nuclear reactors, but dislike subsidies for more individualized forms like personal solar panels or oil extraction it begins to lose any sort of public interest. I certainly want us to stop trying to pick energy sources as a government, like say corn-based ethanol that aren't practical.

Sorry guys, but electric bills really aren't that high. My old roommate spends more on alcohol in a weekend than I do on electricity in a month. I fail to see the need to spend a bunch of money subsidizing it for anyone except those who are very, very poor.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2012, 02:23:43 PM »

No.  Natural monopolies should never be for-profit.
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Roemerista
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2012, 03:05:31 PM »

Absolutely. Profit is not a bad thing for the users...

However, should they be public? That depends on the utility. Take electricity, I don't think the distributive infrastructure should be private, but would have no problem with the producers to be privately held...

In MA we have had a problem with municipal light departments not cashing in the "green" credits, towns losing literally millions just so they can say they are green. When in actuality they are acting counter to the created mechanism to reinforce green activity.
( to be fair, to the rate payer it would not be significant savings...but that is the sort of absurdity you get with non-profit utility...)
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jfern
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2012, 03:33:13 PM »

Of course not. When they are, the price often quadruples.
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