A poster boy for Amnesty

[CARLHAYDEN]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/22/2602909/immigration-authorities-released.html

[they don't love you like i love you]

Isn't it ironic (CHICKEN SANDWICH) CARL posts only URLs now when he used to complain about having to post them and not being able to post full articles?

(didn't read the link)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It would be good if the laws applied here were changed so that deportable felons were continued to be held until the conditions that led to a temporary suspension of deportations to their home country on humanitarian grounds were corrected.  However, the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one.

[Free Palestine]

HURR the article says nothing about amnesty.  His deportation was ordered but not carried out.  Big fcking difference between a convicted criminal and someone who comes here with honest intentions of having a better life.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Is CARL aware that natural-born United States citizens do, in fact, from time to time, commit crimes?

[CARLHAYDEN]

It would be good if the laws applied here were changed so that deportable felons were continued to be held until the conditions that led to a temporary suspension of deportations to their home country on humanitarian grounds were corrected.  However, the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one.

"...the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one."

Hmm.

Tell that to the three people who died as a result of that "good" policy.

[they don't love you like i love you]

It would be good if the laws applied here were changed so that deportable felons were continued to be held until the conditions that led to a temporary suspension of deportations to their home country on humanitarian grounds were corrected.  However, the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one.

"...the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one."

Hmm.

Tell that to the three people who died as a result of that "good" policy.

Count on (CHICKEN SANDWICH) CARL to always ignore context:

It would be good if the laws applied here were changed so that deportable felons were continued to be held until the conditions that led to a temporary suspension of deportations to their home country on humanitarian grounds were corrected.  However, the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one.

[7,052,770]

This is horrible logic for opposing amnesty, unless you think that all foreigners have an innate drive to kill others.

"Illegal" immigrants can just as easily save lives, just like American citizens can do either.

[CARLHAYDEN]

This is horrible logic for opposing amnesty, unless you think that all foreigners have an innate drive to kill others.

"Illegal" immigrants can just as easily save lives, just like American citizens can do either.

Harry,

Your post illustrates a number of logical fallacies.

First, let us start with definitions.  An alien illegally present in the United States is an illegal alien, not an illegal immigrant.

An "immigrant" is a person who intends to take up permanent residence in a country whereas a "sojourner" is one who merely comes to a foreign country for a time (usually to obtain financial resources), who fully intends to return to their home country.  As numerous studies have indicated, roughly half of the illegal aliens present in the United States are sojourners NOT immigrants.

Second, your assertion that "unless you think that all foreigners have an innate drive to kill others" is really bizarre as absolutely nothing was said about aliens who are legally present in the United States.

Third, aliens who illegally enter the United States (generally called illegal entrants) are generally conceded too have a significantly higher rate of violent crime than both the average for the American population, or aliens who are legally present in the United States.

[Ebowed]

Language is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases - for example, aliens are creatures that come off of UFOs.

[Username MechaRFK]

This is horrible logic for opposing amnesty, unless you think that all foreigners have an innate drive to kill others.

"Illegal" immigrants can just as easily save lives, just like American citizens can do either.

Were oratoring to one of the most out spoken anti illegal immigration person on this forum. It would be like trying to tell BRTD how nice the suburbs are.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Language is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases - for example, aliens are creatures that come off of UFOs.

Hmm.

United States Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter 1, Section 1101 Definitions. (a)(3) “The term “alien” means any person not a citizen or national of the United States.”

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_08_00001101----000-.html

Don't see any mention of UFOs or "creatures."

But you are correct that "(L)anguage is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases."

Yours is showing.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Language is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases - for example, aliens are creatures that come off of UFOs.

Hmm.

United States Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter 1, Section 1101 Definitions. (a)(3) “The term “alien” means any person not a citizen or national of the United States.”

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_08_00001101----000-.html

Don't see any mention of UFOs or "creatures."

But you are correct that "(L)anguage is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases."

Yours is showing.

Choosing to use this particular legal term instead of any of a number of equally serviceable and less dehumanizing-sounding quotidian terms is telling.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

... the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one.

Hmm.

Tell that to the three people who died as a result of that "good" policy.

As as already been pointed out to you, I do not agree with the release of deportable felons simply because of a temporary suspension of deportation into disaster zones.  They should be held until they can be deported.  So now that sibboleth has been dealt with, do you really think deportations of non-violent illegals into disaster zones would be good policy?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

DEY TOOK ER JERBS

[CARLHAYDEN]

Language is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases - for example, aliens are creatures that come off of UFOs.

Hmm.

United States Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter 1, Section 1101 Definitions. (a)(3) “The term “alien” means any person not a citizen or national of the United States.”

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_08_00001101----000-.html

Don't see any mention of UFOs or "creatures."

But you are correct that "(L)anguage is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases."

Yours is showing.

Choosing to use this particular legal term instead of any of a number of equally serviceable and less dehumanizing-sounding quotidian terms is telling.

Nathan,

This is getting to be hysterically funny.

[CARLHAYDEN]

... the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one.

Hmm.

Tell that to the three people who died as a result of that "good" policy.

As as already been pointed out to you, I do not agree with the release of deportable felons simply because of a temporary suspension of deportation into disaster zones.  They should be held until they can be deported.  So now that sibboleth has been dealt with, do you really think deportations of non-violent illegals into disaster zones would be good policy?

First, yes I know you are in lockstep with the other lefties on this forum.

Second, for you "temporary" can go on for years, so you, like Obama and twisting the language to mislead.

Third, yes, I know you want the American taxpayers to house, feed, clothe, and provide medical care for illegal aliens, rather than deport them.  Gives you a pretext for arguing for more and higher taxes.

Finally, for those who bothered to read the article linked by the initial post in this thread, you will find that the individual cited had been previously convicted of burglary, which by Florida statute (and common law) is a "violent felony" (something affirmed by the Supreme Court of the United States.  http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/06pdf/05-9264.pdf)  So, Ernest's argument about non-violent felons does not apply in this case, but rather is merely another example of his trying to change the subject.

Oh, and as to language. there is no such thing as a "sibboleth" except in lefty argot.

It is possible that Ernest was trying to use the word "shibboleth," but failed, again.

[Joe Republic]

CARL, you know your style of argument has won you few arguments, fewer allies on this forum, and no friends at all, right?  After so many years here, have you accepted that yet?

[Ebowed]

But you are correct that "(L)anguage is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases."

Yours is showing.

Right, I'm not suggesting I am immune to it.  Your ruse of legalistic infallibility is a poor way to justify your views, since the law could easily be changed.  Then where you would you hide?

[CARLHAYDEN]

But you are correct that "(L)anguage is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases."

Yours is showing.

Right, I'm not suggesting I am immune to it.  Your ruse of legalistic infallibility is a poor way to justify your views, since the law could easily be changed.  Then where you would you hide?

The term I used IS defined by law.  I cited the statute.

Apparently, you (and others) take the 'Humpty Dumpty' approach to language:

"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Through_the_Looking-Glass

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

... the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one.

Hmm.

Tell that to the three people who died as a result of that "good" policy.

As as already been pointed out to you, I do not agree with the release of deportable felons simply because of a temporary suspension of deportation into disaster zones.  They should be held until they can be deported.  So now that sibboleth has been dealt with, do you really think deportations of non-violent illegals into disaster zones would be good policy?

First, yes I know you are in lockstep with the other lefties on this forum.

Second, for you "temporary" can go on for years, so you, like Obama and twisting the language to mislead.

Third, yes, I know you want the American taxpayers to house, feed, clothe, and provide medical care for illegal aliens, rather than deport them.  Gives you a pretext for arguing for more and higher taxes.

Finally, for those who bothered to read the article linked by the initial post in this thread, you will find that the individual cited had been previously convicted of burglary, which by Florida statute (and common law) is a "violent felony" (something affirmed by the Supreme Court of the United States.  http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/06pdf/05-9264.pdf)  So, Ernest's argument about non-violent felons does not apply in this case, but rather is merely another example of his trying to change the subject.

I would have thought to anyone with minimal reading comprehension it would have been abundantly clear that I was not including the person in this case when referring to non-violent illegals.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No I purposefully used sibboleth, in reference to the origin of the word shibboleth, because I wished to indicate that I was finished with the narrow tragic case you were trying to use to justify your broader agenda of deport everyone no matter the circumstances or cost of doing so.  Alas, you seem to think language is something that comes out of a dictionary and should never be used imaginatively.

[Ebowed]

But you are correct that "(L)anguage is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases."

Yours is showing.

Right, I'm not suggesting I am immune to it.  Your ruse of legalistic infallibility is a poor way to justify your views, since the law could easily be changed.  Then where you would you hide?

The term I used IS defined by law.  I cited the statute.

I never disputed that, but rather explicitly acknowledged as such.  What else did you think I meant by the reference to legalism?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

But you are correct that "(L)anguage is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases."

Yours is showing.

Right, I'm not suggesting I am immune to it.  Your ruse of legalistic infallibility is a poor way to justify your views, since the law could easily be changed.  Then where you would you hide?

The term I used IS defined by law.  I cited the statute.

Apparently, you (and others) take the 'Humpty Dumpty' approach to language:

"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Through_the_Looking-Glass

Considering your repeated strenuous objections to the use of the phrase "illegal immigrant", CARL, it's clear that you are counted amongst those others who take the Humpty Dumpty approach.

[CARLHAYDEN]

... the general policy of suspending deportations to places that have suffered major natural disasters, such as Haiti after its earthquake, is a good one.

Hmm.

Tell that to the three people who died as a result of that "good" policy.

As as already been pointed out to you, I do not agree with the release of deportable felons simply because of a temporary suspension of deportation into disaster zones.  They should be held until they can be deported.  So now that sibboleth has been dealt with, do you really think deportations of non-violent illegals into disaster zones would be good policy?

First, yes I know you are in lockstep with the other lefties on this forum.

Second, for you "temporary" can go on for years, so you, like Obama and twisting the language to mislead.

Third, yes, I know you want the American taxpayers to house, feed, clothe, and provide medical care for illegal aliens, rather than deport them.  Gives you a pretext for arguing for more and higher taxes.

Finally, for those who bothered to read the article linked by the initial post in this thread, you will find that the individual cited had been previously convicted of burglary, which by Florida statute (and common law) is a "violent felony" (something affirmed by the Supreme Court of the United States.  http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/06pdf/05-9264.pdf)  So, Ernest's argument about non-violent felons does not apply in this case, but rather is merely another example of his trying to change the subject.

I would have thought to anyone with minimal reading comprehension it would have been abundantly clear that I was not including the person in this case when referring to non-violent illegals.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No I purposefully used sibboleth, in reference to the origin of the word shibboleth, because I wished to indicate that I was finished with the narrow tragic case you were trying to use to justify your broader agenda of deport everyone no matter the circumstances or cost of doing so.  Alas, you seem to think language is something that comes out of a dictionary and should never be used imaginatively.

I must admit that you are very "imaginative" in you use of language.  So, please "imaginatively" continue to babel.

[CARLHAYDEN]

But you are correct that "(L)anguage is a fascinating indicator of one's personal biases."

Yours is showing.

Right, I'm not suggesting I am immune to it.  Your ruse of legalistic infallibility is a poor way to justify your views, since the law could easily be changed.  Then where you would you hide?

The term I used IS defined by law.  I cited the statute.

Apparently, you (and others) take the 'Humpty Dumpty' approach to language:

"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Through_the_Looking-Glass

Considering your repeated strenuous objections to the use of the phrase "illegal immigrant", CARL, it's clear that you are counted amongst those others who take the Humpty Dumpty approach.

Once again, I use the correct terminology, and you use inaccurate terminology.

If you check, you will see that the term "immigrant" means someone who moves to another country for a permanent residence.  All the experts agree that many of the aliens illegally present in this country are sojourners.

So, why do you persist in calling such persons immigrants?