UK General Discussion

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Havering MPs: Rosindell against (not a surprise), Watkinson and Cruddas in favour.

With regards to issues mentioned above, Cruddas is very, very, very much RC.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Teather is a piece of sh!t. Anyone who's ever had a relative who's died of cancer ought to think so.

[Leftbehind]

Havering MPs: Rosindell against (not a surprise), Watkinson and Cruddas in favour.

With regards to issues mentioned above, Cruddas is very, very, very much RC.

Disappointed with his Daily Politics interview; seem to remember reading he was only on board if he had freedom to propose some radical thinking and yet he distanced himself from it (why was he so sure Labour would never get elected on his platform, frankly he makes it sound like he's John McDonnell, and even then I'd class it as a mark of a pessimist to rule it out like that) and even the report itself seemed to conclude the platform wasn't going to be much influenced by him.  

[You kip if you want to...]

Wow, has Boris actually just pulled a stunt I liked and agreed with?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21365679

And also, thank god for the GCSE u-turn.

[Silent Hunter]

Any exam with a name that most people have difficulty spelling is not a good exam.

[afleitch]

Eagerly awaiting c-nt features Brian Souter talking about the gays on Question Time.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A technical term, it should be noted.

[You kip if you want to...]

So much for Cam's referendum bounce.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Well considering that the message was, here's the referendum you idiots want, but it'll still be several years away and we'll try to educate you ignorant louts to vote to stay in the EU, it's no surprise.

[afleitch]

Deserved, given the last few weeks.

[YL]

Good news for Cameron with ICM. Labour's lead down to 5.

At the moment that just looks like margin of error fluctuation; compared with their previous poll the Tories were up 1 and Labour down 2 (and the LDs up 2), which hardly looks earth-shattering.

The Guardian has developed a bad habit of exaggerating the significance of smallish shifts in ICM polls, yesterday's article on this one being a case in point (NB they've done it with shifts in different directions).

As I was saying...

Patrick Wintour's article on the latest ICM poll does at least recognise the possibility of outlier polls, but it still fits into the above-mentioned pattern.  (And the January poll certainly looks like an outlier now.)

[afleitch]

http://www.tomforth.co.uk/guardiancomments/

This is a Guardian CIF comment generator. Not bad. Needs work though

"Why does sexuality still define us? I would rather vote for the BNP than let my three year old eat anything sold in Asda! But that's the fallout from having PM Bliar for a decade!"

and my favourite

"After a late night pilates session me and my chums were discussing things. In an age of rampant consumerism and on-demand television, can we really be surprised that the new generation would rather listen to hip hop than appreciate the subversive nature of the works of Arnold Schoenberg? I suppose that's why I don't let society define my gender!"

[Supersonic]

Sources suggest 140 Tories against, 132 for. If confirmed I'll resign my membership.

139-132 is the current (final?) figure

Seems to be. Letter already drafted. I can't quite believe I'm doing this under these circumstances on what should be a good day.

Did you actually resign membership?

[Leftbehind]

http://www.tomforth.co.uk/guardiancomments/

This is a Guardian CIF comment generator. Not bad. Needs work though

"Why does sexuality still define us? I would rather vote for the BNP than let my three year old eat anything sold in Asda! But that's the fallout from having PM Bliar for a decade!"

and my favourite

"After a late night pilates session me and my chums were discussing things. In an age of rampant consumerism and on-demand television, can we really be surprised that the new generation would rather listen to hip hop than appreciate the subversive nature of the works of Arnold Schoenberg? I suppose that's why I don't let society define my gender!"

They/you clearly haven't read CIF, which is weird, as it seems to be flooded with right-wingers.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It is quite the magnet for cretins of all political hues; the dominant tone depends on the subject matter a lot of the time.

[Leftbehind]

I'm disappointed as I think there is some commonality for the avg CIF (once discounting the Rightist hoards on there for an argument), much like there is for Telegraph/Mail etc; they were on the right track with Bliar:

a) Tories are capitalists/feudalists and we soon-to-be serfs should be revolting.
b) Liberals are sellouts who we'll enjoy seeing destroyed come 2015.
c) Labour are useless, they'll be no different and we're all screwed.

They're nearly always rants (don't let the size fool you into believing they're introspective, considered points) and so, as I say, I can only conclude those building this are basing this off the stereotype for Guardian readers.

[LastVoter]

It's amazing that half of the right-wing party voted for gay marriage.

[DC Al Fine]

It's amazing that half of the right-wing party voted for gay marriage.

The UK is quite socially liberal and I imagine a lot of the religious right types have jumped to UKIP already.

[Leftbehind]

It's amazing that half of the right-wing party voted for gay marriage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3D_obNV9vk

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It's amazing that half of the right-wing party voted for gay marriage.

Eh, a lot of the UK Convervatives are probably similar to those New England Republicans who are now Independents who vote Democratic.

[Leftbehind]

Nah, they'd have had an easier time rallying against it. That is, if a) Labour had been proposing it, and not their party leader b) they didn't have a right-wing Thatcherite economic platform to disguise as a centrist 'we're just doing what's needed' policy c) most importantly, the Scottish parliament (and presumably the Welsh assembly) weren't going to propose gay marriage anyway (and in tern creating an enormous headache if England didn't keep pace).

[afleitch]

Sources suggest 140 Tories against, 132 for. If confirmed I'll resign my membership.

139-132 is the current (final?) figure

Seems to be. Letter already drafted. I can't quite believe I'm doing this under these circumstances on what should be a good day.

Did you actually resign membership?

Yes. After nearly 10 years. I already expected before the Commons vote, that the majority of the Scottish Parliament Conservatives would probably vote against the bill when it's raised here because they like to be contrary on such things. Never mind that fact the LGBTory Scotland is probably the largest active grouping in the party membership. I did however have hope that the Commons vote would be a little more along the line of 60-40 in favour amongst Tory MP's. Instead they allowed themselves to get bogged down in semantics and non arguments constructing a little fairy world where Catholic priests are forced marry gays (and only gays mind, not divorces, or Jews or non-practicing Catholics) and that the sky would fall in because gays f-ck differently. We ended up with a man on his second marriage defending it's 'sanctity' and a woman who herself cheated saying gays would do the same thing because essentially penises need to go into vaginas (I wonder which ones...) in order to make people stop bed hopping.

As I said on the day, this is the last test. The last barrier. I forgive past votes on age of consent and Section 28 and so on because people can change and evolve in a very short space of time and not just the Tories. But this was the last bastion and the whole thing wasn't even about sex (yet curiously those with intrests in the scatalogical tried to frame it that way) and the party failed the test.

So they can all just f-ck off.

[You kip if you want to...]

It's amazing that half of the right-wing party voted for gay marriage.

The UK is quite socially liberal and I imagine a lot of the religious right types have jumped to UKIP already.

Some, not a lot.

[Lurker]

I wonder how many Tory MPs would actually have supported the gay marriage bill if Cameron had not backed it. From sites like toryhome (which I realize might not be that representative) you do get the impression that most of the Tory "base" is still very much anti-gay rights.

139 MPs voting against their own Leader in the HoC must surely be a record, right?

[countydurhamboy]

I wonder how many Tory MPs would actually have supported the gay marriage bill if Cameron had not backed it. From sites like toryhome (which I realize might not be that representative) you do get the impression that most of the Tory "base" is still very much anti-gay rights.

139 MPs voting against their own Leader in the HoC must surely be a record, right?

There are a sizeable number of tory Mp's who despise Cameron, if anything they would have been hardened to vote against him.   80MP's voted to give Britain a referendum on the Eu in 2011 and basically ended any chance of a ministerial post. They will simply vote the way their ideology dictates. To many gay marriage was just another stick to beat cameron with. They would rather lose in 2015 than compromise. That's what will happen of course.  I wonder who they will want as leader then?