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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2000 on: January 17, 2014, 10:17:51 AM »

William Hague is in Scotland today to talk about why Scotland should stay in the union. I need say nothing else.

That's a mistake, but I suppose he is the Foreign Secretary Scotland is debating where or not to become a foreign country...
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Cassius
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« Reply #2001 on: January 17, 2014, 11:14:28 AM »

I've got mixed feelings about this whole Scottish independence malarkey. On the one hand, if the Scots leave it'll probably be better for us (and maybe for them too). On the other hand, it'll be a sad day when the United Kingdom loses Scotland, which has, after all, been a integral part of it for the last 300 years.
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #2002 on: January 17, 2014, 12:21:38 PM »

It's not likely to happen with current polling.
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afleitch
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« Reply #2003 on: January 17, 2014, 12:24:54 PM »

It's not likely to happen with current polling.

Neither was an SNP victory four weeks before polling day in 2011!
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #2004 on: January 17, 2014, 12:51:45 PM »

That's a point to remember, of course. Voters are quite capable of changing their minds. An obvious counter point to it, though, would be that was a low turnout legislative election, while this will be (presumably) a high turnout referendum on a major constitutional change.
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afleitch
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« Reply #2005 on: January 17, 2014, 01:17:00 PM »

That's a point to remember, of course. Voters are quite capable of changing their minds. An obvious counter point to it, though, would be that was a low turnout legislative election, while this will be (presumably) a high turnout referendum on a major constitutional change.

As a 'Yes' supporter I don't think we will win but what is important is trying to secure a robust enough Yes turnout to ensure that it's reasonably close as that gives more clout in securing further devolved powers. Though recent goings on in the No brigade give me hope, particularly as we get closer.

The problem of course is that independence in the London media is treated as all Scottish things are; with general suspicion, or scrutinised as having some ulterior motive. The truth is  for me there is a need to escape not 'England' (because it's already been decided that Wales and Northern Ireland don't matter in this phoney war of attrition), but London and the south east which sucks the economic, social and cultural life out of the rest of Britain. I think that people in Manchester and Newcastle and Liverpool have no power over themselves and very little say (even when they send hoards of Labour MP's to sit in Labour governments) in how the country is run which is disgraceful. 'Englishness' and 'Britishness', whatever it means in any given year can only keep people in line for so long. Scotland therefore can't leave because it shatters the whole notion of a UK, much more than Ireland leaving did, because as far as Britain was concerned, the 'better part' of Ireland remained. It leaves the North exposed and may leave them both hungry and wanting.

And UKIP; as flash in the pan as they will be. Is there anything that personifies the political and social gap between Scotland and the south east more than that collection of solidified piss?
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Cassius
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« Reply #2006 on: January 17, 2014, 02:29:40 PM »

That's a point to remember, of course. Voters are quite capable of changing their minds. An obvious counter point to it, though, would be that was a low turnout legislative election, while this will be (presumably) a high turnout referendum on a major constitutional change.

As a 'Yes' supporter I don't think we will win but what is important is trying to secure a robust enough Yes turnout to ensure that it's reasonably close as that gives more clout in securing further devolved powers. Though recent goings on in the No brigade give me hope, particularly as we get closer.

The problem of course is that independence in the London media is treated as all Scottish things are; with general suspicion, or scrutinised as having some ulterior motive. The truth is  for me there is a need to escape not 'England' (because it's already been decided that Wales and Northern Ireland don't matter in this phoney war of attrition), but London and the south east which sucks the economic, social and cultural life out of the rest of Britain. I think that people in Manchester and Newcastle and Liverpool have no power over themselves and very little say (even when they send hoards of Labour MP's to sit in Labour governments) in how the country is run which is disgraceful. 'Englishness' and 'Britishness', whatever it means in any given year can only keep people in line for so long. Scotland therefore can't leave because it shatters the whole notion of a UK, much more than Ireland leaving did, because as far as Britain was concerned, the 'better part' of Ireland remained. It leaves the North exposed and may leave them both hungry and wanting.

And UKIP; as flash in the pan as they will be. Is there anything that personifies the political and social gap between Scotland and the south east more than that collection of solidified piss?

I think, however, that people from London and the South more generally see the rest of the country in similarly negative terms to how the rest see the south; in other words, a constant drag. Not, neccessarily my view, but I do occasionally sympathise with it.
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afleitch
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« Reply #2007 on: January 17, 2014, 02:50:10 PM »

That's a point to remember, of course. Voters are quite capable of changing their minds. An obvious counter point to it, though, would be that was a low turnout legislative election, while this will be (presumably) a high turnout referendum on a major constitutional change.

As a 'Yes' supporter I don't think we will win but what is important is trying to secure a robust enough Yes turnout to ensure that it's reasonably close as that gives more clout in securing further devolved powers. Though recent goings on in the No brigade give me hope, particularly as we get closer.

The problem of course is that independence in the London media is treated as all Scottish things are; with general suspicion, or scrutinised as having some ulterior motive. The truth is  for me there is a need to escape not 'England' (because it's already been decided that Wales and Northern Ireland don't matter in this phoney war of attrition), but London and the south east which sucks the economic, social and cultural life out of the rest of Britain. I think that people in Manchester and Newcastle and Liverpool have no power over themselves and very little say (even when they send hoards of Labour MP's to sit in Labour governments) in how the country is run which is disgraceful. 'Englishness' and 'Britishness', whatever it means in any given year can only keep people in line for so long. Scotland therefore can't leave because it shatters the whole notion of a UK, much more than Ireland leaving did, because as far as Britain was concerned, the 'better part' of Ireland remained. It leaves the North exposed and may leave them both hungry and wanting.

And UKIP; as flash in the pan as they will be. Is there anything that personifies the political and social gap between Scotland and the south east more than that collection of solidified piss?

I think, however, that people from London and the South more generally see the rest of the country in similarly negative terms to how the rest see the south; in other words, a constant drag. Not, neccessarily my view, but I do occasionally sympathise with it.

Though if the country north of Watford magically disappeared the taps and the plug sockets would run dry Cheesy
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Cassius
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« Reply #2008 on: January 17, 2014, 03:25:12 PM »

Nah, that'd be bad, since we'd lose Northumberland, Cumberland and North Yorkshire. If only some way could be found to exchange those places with areas like Hackney, Croydon and Brighton Wink
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freefair
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« Reply #2009 on: January 17, 2014, 03:59:24 PM »

Nah, that'd be bad, since we'd lose Northumberland, Cumberland and North Yorkshire. If only some way could be found to exchange those places with areas like Hackney, Croydon and Brighton Wink
Don't forget that bar 97 and 2001 the Midlands has always returned a majority of Tory MPs at in postwar elections.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #2010 on: January 17, 2014, 07:16:26 PM »

Don't forget that bar 97 and 2001 the Midlands has always returned a majority of Tory MPs at in postwar elections.

Er... how are you defining the Midlands? If we randomly pick February 1974 and go with a fairly standard definition (in terms of traditional counties: Warwickshire, Staffs, Shropshire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire, Leicestershire, Northants, Derbyshire, Notts) you get something like 52 Labour, 37 Tories. Throwing in the bits of Lincolnshire now officially classed as East Midlands, this changes to 52 Labour, 42 Tories and one Dickhead Dick Taverne. Hereford's Midland status is almost as dubious as Lincs, so make that 52 Labour, 35 Tories or whatever.
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YL
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« Reply #2011 on: January 20, 2014, 04:30:44 PM »

What to make of the Lib Dem chaos surrounding Lord Rennard?
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #2012 on: January 20, 2014, 04:32:13 PM »

His name sounds like a Sherlock Holmes villain?
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Cassius
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« Reply #2013 on: January 20, 2014, 04:39:04 PM »

Just remember, the Lib-Dems are pure. Pure as the snow on a cold winter's morning. They are the David, standing up to the monstrous two-headed goliath of corrupt two-party politics.

Or maybe not. (Hey, I know the Lib-Dems are 'different' meme is old, but still, I thought I'd throw it in).
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Supersonic
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« Reply #2014 on: January 21, 2014, 07:08:27 AM »

Surprised there has been no talk of the minimum wage rise here.
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freefair
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« Reply #2015 on: January 21, 2014, 08:22:34 AM »

Oh alright then, the Midlands has always been about as Labour and Tory as the national average- and Indeed since Thatcher has gotten sligtly more Tory- In 2010, 41% vs 30%.
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You kip if you want to...
change08
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2016 on: January 21, 2014, 09:00:48 PM »

Surprised there has been no talk of the minimum wage rise here.

You mean the rise that Labour proposed and the ToryDems voted against last week?
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YL
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« Reply #2017 on: January 22, 2014, 02:48:06 PM »

Another disciplinary issue in the Lib Dems: Mike Hancock, MP for Portsmouth South, has been suspended from the party over allegations of sexual misconduct.  (This one has been brewing for some time.)
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You kip if you want to...
change08
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2018 on: January 22, 2014, 07:38:54 PM »

Why is "long term economic plan" now a Tory parrot line? It seems rather mealy.
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You kip if you want to...
change08
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2019 on: January 22, 2014, 10:24:45 PM »

Another disciplinary issue in the Lib Dems: Mike Hancock, MP for Portsmouth South, has been suspended from the party over allegations of sexual misconduct.  (This one has been brewing for some time.)


Clearing way for the local party to look for a new PPC. The 8th Liberal to be going in 2015, probably more to come as well.
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YL
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« Reply #2020 on: January 23, 2014, 02:07:07 PM »

The Guardian has a bit of fun at the expense of the Purple Peril:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/23/the-ukip-politices-disowned-by-nigel-farage
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #2021 on: January 23, 2014, 02:10:53 PM »

Seem to recall a poll from some time ago showing that UKIP voters were more in favour of renationalising key utilities than the public as a whole.
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You kip if you want to...
change08
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2022 on: January 28, 2014, 03:31:35 PM »

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/whose-policy-ukip-or-monster-raving-loony-party

I got 7/16
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #2023 on: January 31, 2014, 07:23:27 PM »

Deselection drama!

Anne McIntosh - Tory MP for Thirsk & Malton and the Chair of the Environment, Food & Rural Affairs Select Committee - has been deselected. And has apparently pledged to stand as an Independent at the General Election stating that she does not "...intend to be thrown aside by a small cabal" (by which she means the Thirsk & Malton Conservative Association). Thirsk & Malton is an old name but the current incarnation of the constituency is new: McIntosh (who previously held the Vale of York) and John Greenway (Ryedale) faced off against each other in 2006, and McIntosh won. An attempt was then made to deselect her three years later. Fun stuff.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #2024 on: January 31, 2014, 07:31:42 PM »

Oh, and this is serious genepool Tory territory, by the way. Prosperous agricultural constituency in the North Riding of Yorkshire, and North Yorks. farmers are spectacularly right-wing even for farmers.
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