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Author Topic: Whig Party National Conference  (Read 12224 times)
GM Napoleon
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« Reply #225 on: April 16, 2012, 04:22:43 pm »
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I think it might be problematic, if it implicitly rules out cutting the military to a smaller level. If we support small government the military should be cut as well.
At least we should agree on a defence policy first.
Maybe our respect could be directly connected to our veterans policy?

If Atlasia is supposed to be a virtual US this might be problematic but how about:
"We recognize the Judeo-Christian tradition as the primary moral foundation of our society and the positive role of religion should be acknowledged and respected by the government".

Where does the Whigs stand on climate change and alternative energy? I hope we are relatively progressive on this issue (otherwise I am in the wrong party Smiley ).

Your own description of your beliefs makes me think you'd fit much better in the Liberal Party.
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
Lt. Governor TJ
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« Reply #226 on: April 16, 2012, 04:37:28 pm »
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I think it might be problematic, if it implicitly rules out cutting the military to a smaller level. If we support small government the military should be cut as well.
At least we should agree on a defence policy first.
Maybe our respect could be directly connected to our veterans policy?

If Atlasia is supposed to be a virtual US this might be problematic but how about:
"We recognize the Judeo-Christian tradition as the primary moral foundation of our society and the positive role of religion should be acknowledged and respected by the government".

Where does the Whigs stand on climate change and alternative energy? I hope we are relatively progressive on this issue (otherwise I am in the wrong party Smiley ).

First of all, welcome to Atlasia and welcome to the Whig Party.

As for the religion point, I like what you have written--hopefully it is broad and vague enough not to turn off any non-Christians or non-Jews from joining or voting for Whig Party members.

We haven't discussed climate change or alternative energy much here but I would suspect the Whig Party would support energy research (our last point is to encourage and promote science) but likely oppose tough carbon enforcement measures (like a carbon tax) as something of a government intrusion. One of the main ideological issues here is that the Whig Party was started as a Communitarian right party that has sort of morphed into a general US style conservative party with some more libertarian aspects as well. The original ideology is probably more progressive on environmental issues but this may be an issue with some tension inside the party.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #227 on: April 16, 2012, 09:57:20 pm »
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I think it might be problematic, if it implicitly rules out cutting the military to a smaller level. If we support small government the military should be cut as well.
At least we should agree on a defence policy first.
Maybe our respect could be directly connected to our veterans policy?

If Atlasia is supposed to be a virtual US this might be problematic but how about:
"We recognize the Judeo-Christian tradition as the primary moral foundation of our society and the positive role of religion should be acknowledged and respected by the government".

Where does the Whigs stand on climate change and alternative energy? I hope we are relatively progressive on this issue (otherwise I am in the wrong party Smiley ).

Your own description of your beliefs makes me think you'd fit much better in the Liberal Party.

Pah. I still stand by my belief that the reference to "That multilateralism and collective security - a community of nations - is the best way to advance Atlasia's interests abroad." should remain- I recall making an amendment, what was it?
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« Reply #228 on: April 17, 2012, 02:53:44 am »
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"We recognize the Judeo-Christian tradition as the primary moral foundation of our society and the positive role of religion should be acknowledged and respected by the government".

I like that, and I doubt such a statement could be part of the platform of any other Atlasian party. I think the Whig Party is basically the only Atlasian party that still holds traditional Christian values in high esteem (though some members of the Imperial Bloc may think similarly in that respect).

And regarding climate change and alternative energy, I think TJ's comment summarizes my own stance neatly but of course I can't speak for the other Whig members. That's why we need this debate, our party needs to settle on a common environmental policy.
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #229 on: April 17, 2012, 03:50:48 pm »
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Atlasia may not establish any religion as the official religion of the state.
--Third Constitution, Article VI, Section 2

Basing decisions on Christianity seems a little fishy to me.
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There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

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President John Hay
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« Reply #230 on: April 17, 2012, 05:51:29 pm »
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Thanks Alfred- but no thanks. Not only does this clause NOT establish an official religion but you are not a member of our party so your opinion on party matters means zilch to any one here
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #231 on: April 17, 2012, 06:58:04 pm »
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I'm not intending to influence the party. I'm just saying that I don't want a whole party of Rick Santorums.

Also, that's not very nice. Sad
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There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

Alfred is the Atlasian equivalent of a malevolent deity.

ZuWo
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« Reply #232 on: April 18, 2012, 04:36:59 am »
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Atlasia may not establish any religion as the official religion of the state.
--Third Constitution, Article VI, Section 2

Basing decisions on Christianity seems a little fishy to me.

We are not attempting to do the first, but we obviously do the second. It may seem fishy to you to base decisions on Christianity, fair enough, but don't tell me that there is any human being who does not base their decisions - be they personal or political - on their respective worldview. In the case of most Whig members, that world view happens to be a Christian one. On the other hand, members of other parties may be influenced by certain philosophies such as social-democratic, purely libertarian or communist ideas. Why should that be any better or worse from a neutral point of view?
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GM Napoleon
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« Reply #233 on: April 18, 2012, 04:57:34 am »
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Why should that be any better or worse from a neutral point of view?

You pose an easy question. The overwhelming majority of Atlasians rely on empirical evidence to make good decisions and we expect the same from our political leaders. Wrapping anti-woman, anti-family policies in a Christian coat rubs many of us the wrong way, even other Christians. We don't think blind faith in one interpretation of doctrine is reason enough to subjugate a nation. There's facts, there's opinions, and then there's dogma. Only the first two have any place in modern politics. Where's the respect for people who have differing beliefs?

At least social democrats, libertarians, etc. can use facts to back up arguments!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 05:01:58 am by we don't need a cure for the weight of the world »Logged

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
President John Hay
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« Reply #234 on: April 18, 2012, 05:36:31 am »
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Napoleon- why don't you let us set OUR platform... you wont' vote for us whatever we put in so why should we try to meet you halfway
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GM Napoleon
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« Reply #235 on: April 18, 2012, 05:40:46 am »
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Napoleon- why don't you let us set OUR platform... you wont' vote for us whatever we put in so why should we try to meet you halfway

Clarence, I only posted to answer ZuWo's question. I don't want to write your platform anymore than I want you writing the Liberal Party's, but I wanted to provide ZuWo with an explanation of the perspective, since he asked. I certainly didn't mean to crash the party here.
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
President John Hay
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« Reply #236 on: April 18, 2012, 05:47:01 am »
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Your comments completely distorted our point of views... recognizing Judeo-Christian tradition as the moral backbone of our nation while respecting and encouraging other views does not declare Christianity a state religion. Regardless of if you are a Jew or a Christian- it is likely that YOUR notion of morals stems from the Ten Commandments
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politicus
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« Reply #237 on: April 18, 2012, 05:58:13 am »
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I generally think we should just ignore comments from nonmembers in this thread. Otherwise we wont get a debate started about the actual programme. Over all the interesting thing for me is to see if we could somehow combine the traditions of European Christian Democrats and American Conservatives into a coherent programme. That may not be possible, but it could be interesting to try.
Still I am new to this and if you feel the Whigs should simply be the Atlasian version of the US Republicans just let me know.

Regarding the positive role of religion sentence. I was simply thinking that we could see religion as a generally positive force in society and be in favour of some level of government funding for religious schools, perhaps in a voucher system.
A coherent pro-life approach regarding abortion, euthanasia, the boundaries of bio-scientific research and the death penalty would be part of this tradition in my view. But I realize I am probably in the minority regarding the death penalty.

Regarding the environment I support the Christian Democratic "caretaker"-argument. That is "God gave us the earth in trust and we are merely the caretakers of it and should pass it on to future generations in at least the condition we received it". This view leads to a relatively high level of government intervention compared to the mainstream US Conservative approach, but some of those policies could be market based like a cap n trade-model for carbon-dioxine emission.

I agree with Simfan regarding the multilateral approach to foreign policy. But we should specify a level of defence spending. In my view this level should be consistent with relatively low taxes and a balanced budget.
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President John Hay
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« Reply #238 on: April 18, 2012, 06:05:48 am »
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Politicus- I think you have many good points. I think the first paragraph sums up what w are trying to do... this party stems from the Right to Life Caucus which officially opposed the death penalty for consistency
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« Reply #239 on: April 18, 2012, 06:46:55 am »
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I would like amend the platform:
While Whig Party is not pacifist, we support non-interventionist foreign policy.
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President John Hay
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« Reply #240 on: April 18, 2012, 06:51:46 am »
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If something like "unless our national security interests are threatened" I would agree...
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Pingvin99
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« Reply #241 on: April 18, 2012, 06:53:51 am »
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Yeah, like this.
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politicus
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« Reply #242 on: April 18, 2012, 09:37:21 am »
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I would like amend the platform:
While Whig Party is not pacifist, we support non-interventionist foreign policy.
How about: "The Whig Party will only use military intervention abroad if the national security of Atlasia or our allies is threatened".

Otherwise we cant be a part of military alliances.

How about genocide abroad? Could we provide troops for UN-operations to prevent genocide? Or is it none of our business?
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« Reply #243 on: April 18, 2012, 09:50:22 am »
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Though we can provide troops for the peacekeeping UN operations, we should not interevene directly.
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Pingvin99
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« Reply #244 on: April 18, 2012, 09:51:38 am »
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I also think that our party should support research for alternative enegry sources and promomting hybrides and other eco-friendly products.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #245 on: April 23, 2012, 11:38:36 am »
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My take on the Senate election from a Whig perspective

Fellow Whig members,

the Senate elections have come to an end and the results leave us with mixed feelings. On the one hand, our party chairman Pingvin, a dedicated conservative, has lost his seat. On the other hand, both TJ in Cleve and clarence have been able to hang on to their seats. Thank you to everyone who has preferenced the Whig candidates - you have helped elect two active and competent candidates, which is exactly what Atlasia needs. I'd also like to congratulate AndrewPA and wormyguy on their election; all in all, the Senate has moved a tad to the right.

I think our GOTV operation was fairly successful, though there is still room for improvement. Thanks to everyone who has contributed in that respect!
However, this election has once again made clear that the right can only be strong in an election if numerous positive factors come together and, simply put, if we are a little bit lucky. That's why the worst we can do at this point is to lean back and rest on our laurels. We have to continue our fight, bring new conservatives to the game, keep current players interested and active and run qualified candidates in every election we compete in.

The first thing we have to do now is work! Let's get back to business. We still need to specify our platform and discuss various proposals that have been made on the previous pages.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 11:40:35 am by Assemblyman of the Mideast ZuWo »Logged
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Pingvin99
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« Reply #246 on: April 23, 2012, 11:41:43 am »
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There is a good point in my defeat - I can focus on the party issues Smiley
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President John Hay
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« Reply #247 on: April 23, 2012, 11:43:15 am »
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Great points- ZuWo as always. We are in a good position and I congratulate TJ and also Pingvin- he makes the liberals angry but he certainly makes us proud by standing true to his values even if it may hurt politically

I think we have made great progress on the platform... I hope my clause about respecting the military as a part of our national tradition makes it in. I had raised a stink about the multilateralism clause but I realized I confused that with multipolar which is very different...
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politicus
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« Reply #248 on: April 23, 2012, 03:12:03 pm »
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The chairman should make a list of the various proposals so we can vote on them.

Include my "caretaker"-argument as a proposal.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 04:14:05 pm by politicus »Logged

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Pingvin99
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« Reply #249 on: April 24, 2012, 12:39:27 am »
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Amendment to the platform: "Whig party supports alternative energy research and supports enviromental protection".
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