African aids aide, drop it or keep it going?

[MasterJedi]

I think we should drop all aids aide to Africa. Face it, it's just not working. We spend billions of dollars a year taht goes to waste because the some of the Africans are paranoid and think we're trying to give them aids with the drugs!

Those billions of dollars could be spent somewhere else were it can go to better use such as welfare(which also isn't working), health care, social security and homeland security or just help shrink the deficit.

[Gustaf]

Yeah, let them die, after all they aren't Americans, now are they?

[MasterJedi]

*sarcastic*

Sure why not!

*end sacrasem*

If it isn't working why keep it going? Prohibition didn't work they stopped it, the aids aide isn't working should stop it too!

[Gustaf]

*sarcastic*

Sure why not!

*end sacrasem*

If it isn't working why keep it going? Prohibition didn't work they stopped it, the aids aide isn't working should stop it too!

You implied that the money should be spent at home instead of abroad, that's all...one of the reasons for it not working I believe is the fact that Bush isn't very interested in cooperating with other countries and help organizations...that is a serious liability when it comes to areas like this one.

[MasterJedi]

*sighs*

It wasn't working under Clinton either! The only way to make it work is to spend the entire US GDP and use force to teach/make the Africans go along with this.

Doing it any other way IS a waste of time and money, period.

[Gustaf]

*sighs*

It wasn't working under Clinton either! The only way to make it work is to spend the entire US GDP and use force to teach/make the Africans go along with this.

Doing it any other way IS a waste of time and money, period.

If you say so...I won't claim to be an expert on the subject...this is just what I have heard from people who do know something about it...they're just Africans so I suppose the money is better used buying some new school books.

[MarkDel]

Yeah, let them die, after all they aren't Americans, now are they?

Gustaf,

I am definitely in favor of developed nations spending money to help combat aids in Africa...I think it is a moral obligation on our part. But yuo do realize that MasterJedi has a point about the sometimes fruitless nature of this endeavor?

[Gustaf]

Yeah, let them die, after all they aren't Americans, now are they?

Gustaf,

I am definitely in favor of developed nations spending money to help combat aids in Africa...I think it is a moral obligation on our part. But yuo do realize that MasterJedi has a point about the sometimes fruitless nature of this endeavor?

Yes, but I am 1) sceptical of people who starts talking about hw aid is better spent at home...that seems to me to run contrary against any feeling about a moral obligaiton, and 2) that I am no expert on the subject of AIDS and I don't know if he is, but what I've heard is that there has been a lot of problems especially concerning the fact that the Bush-adminitration consistently opposes anything that favour use of condoms, or giving aid to clinics that perform abortions, etc, etc. Also, the general tension that Bush has created between himself and the rest of the world obviously works aginst positive results in an area like this one, where cooperation is essential. And, finally, cutting AIDS-aid and spending the money on domestic stuff like school books orcutting the deficit does not seem to imply any sort of come-back in the area.

[opebo]

I think we should drop all aids aide to Africa. Face it, it's just not working. We spend billions of dollars a year taht goes to waste because the some of the Africans are paranoid and think we're trying to give them aids with the drugs!

Those billions of dollars could be spent somewhere else were it can go to better use such as welfare(which also isn't working), health care, social security and homeland security or just help shrink the deficit.

Actually the best argument for being skeptical about giving this aid is that HIV and Aids in Africa are somewhat dubious.  The statistics are all generated by computer models, and for everyone involved there's a huge incentive to exaggerate the problem.  I suspect HIV rates are much lower in Africa than we have been led to believe.

[Gustaf]

I think we should drop all aids aide to Africa. Face it, it's just not working. We spend billions of dollars a year taht goes to waste because the some of the Africans are paranoid and think we're trying to give them aids with the drugs!

Those billions of dollars could be spent somewhere else were it can go to better use such as welfare(which also isn't working), health care, social security and homeland security or just help shrink the deficit.

Actually the best argument for being skeptical about giving this aid is that HIV and Aids in Africa are somewhat dubious.  The statistics are all generated by computer models, and for everyone involved there's a huge incentive to exaggerate the problem.  I suspect HIV rates are much lower in Africa than we have been led to believe.

People DIE from it...

[Middle-aged Europe]

The main reason why African AIDS aide "doesn´t work" is that not enough money is spend and not too much.

This is not only directed at the United States but the whole "western world".

[Michael Z]

I think we should drop all aids aide to Africa. Face it, it's just not working. We spend billions of dollars a year taht goes to waste because the some of the Africans are paranoid and think we're trying to give them aids with the drugs!

Those billions of dollars could be spent somewhere else were it can go to better use such as welfare(which also isn't working), health care, social security and homeland security or just help shrink the deficit.

Actually the best argument for being skeptical about giving this aid is that HIV and Aids in Africa are somewhat dubious.  The statistics are all generated by computer models, and for everyone involved there's a huge incentive to exaggerate the problem.  I suspect HIV rates are much lower in Africa than we have been led to believe.

People DIE from it...

Indeed. It's interesting (as well as scary and depressing) to see that Opebo and MasterJedi can simply treat other human beings like statistics, and that a few minor problems are immediate justification for denying them help.

Empathy is another thing that separates us from animals. Some people would do well to remember that.

[MasterJedi]

It's not thinking of them as statistics, just that the system DOESN'T WORK! I think we should focus more on aide along the lines of food, military intervention to stop all the genocide and establish stable governments, and the modernization and education of the population before we start helping them with problems we haven't even fixed in out OWN country yet!

[Gustaf]

It's not thinking of them as statistics, just that the system DOESN'T WORK! I think we should focus more on aide along the lines of food, military intervention to stop all the genocide and establish stable governments, and the modernization and education of the population before we start helping them with problems we haven't even fixed in out OWN country yet!

OK, but that's not what you said at the start was it? That sounded like an 'America first' perspetive, when we don't need money at home aid might become a reality, and so on.

[opebo]

I think we should drop all aids aide to Africa. Face it, it's just not working. We spend billions of dollars a year taht goes to waste because the some of the Africans are paranoid and think we're trying to give them aids with the drugs!

Those billions of dollars could be spent somewhere else were it can go to better use such as welfare(which also isn't working), health care, social security and homeland security or just help shrink the deficit.

Actually the best argument for being skeptical about giving this aid is that HIV and Aids in Africa are somewhat dubious.  The statistics are all generated by computer models, and for everyone involved there's a huge incentive to exaggerate the problem.  I suspect HIV rates are much lower in Africa than we have been led to believe.

People DIE from it...

Yes, but my point was that the rates are extravagantly overstated.  In fact the single statistic that best belies aids claims is that the Death Rate hasn't gone up anywhere near as much as predicted in those coutries.  Answer: lower rates.

[opebo]

I think we should drop all aids aide to Africa. Face it, it's just not working. We spend billions of dollars a year taht goes to waste because the some of the Africans are paranoid and think we're trying to give them aids with the drugs!

Those billions of dollars could be spent somewhere else were it can go to better use such as welfare(which also isn't working), health care, social security and homeland security or just help shrink the deficit.

Actually the best argument for being skeptical about giving this aid is that HIV and Aids in Africa are somewhat dubious.  The statistics are all generated by computer models, and for everyone involved there's a huge incentive to exaggerate the problem.  I suspect HIV rates are much lower in Africa than we have been led to believe.

People DIE from it...

Indeed. It's interesting (as well as scary and depressing) to see that Opebo and MasterJedi can simply treat other human beings like statistics, and that a few minor problems are immediate justification for denying them help.

Empathy is another thing that separates us from animals. Some people would do well to remember that.

Empathy doesn't have anything to do with it - I feel badly for them.  That doesn't change the fact that I can be skeptical about the statistics.  All I'm saying is that they're greatly overstated.

[Gustaf]

I think we should drop all aids aide to Africa. Face it, it's just not working. We spend billions of dollars a year taht goes to waste because the some of the Africans are paranoid and think we're trying to give them aids with the drugs!

Those billions of dollars could be spent somewhere else were it can go to better use such as welfare(which also isn't working), health care, social security and homeland security or just help shrink the deficit.

Actually the best argument for being skeptical about giving this aid is that HIV and Aids in Africa are somewhat dubious.  The statistics are all generated by computer models, and for everyone involved there's a huge incentive to exaggerate the problem.  I suspect HIV rates are much lower in Africa than we have been led to believe.

People DIE from it...

Indeed. It's interesting (as well as scary and depressing) to see that Opebo and MasterJedi can simply treat other human beings like statistics, and that a few minor problems are immediate justification for denying them help.

Empathy is another thing that separates us from animals. Some people would do well to remember that.

Empathy doesn't have anything to do with it - I feel badly for them.  That doesn't change the fact that I can be skeptical about the statistics.  All I'm saying is that they're greatly overstated.

Well, that's nice...I'm sure they'll be grateful for that empathy when they die...even though I admit that the statistics might be flawed, that seems reasonable, it cannt be denied that it's a big epidemic. And it apparently contributes a lot to a social break-down.

[Beet]

The Aids epidemic is undoubtedly a massive problem affecting entire socities and millions of people, no matter what you believe about the specific statistics. Its right that we try to do something about this tragedy. This is one of the few areas where I think Bush made some steps in the right direction.

[opebo]

The Aids epidemic is undoubtedly a massive problem affecting entire socities and millions of people, no matter what you believe about the specific statistics. Its right that we try to do something about this tragedy. This is one of the few areas where I think Bush made some steps in the right direction.

But the difference in terms of democraphics and the survivability of the society is huge between 2-5% prevelance and 20-25% prevelance.  Its something worth trying to be accurate about.

[A18]

I oppose all [government] foreign aid, except to Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Citizen James]

Shall we also cut all funding to fire stations, since fires happen anyway?

Or eliminate the police, since crime happens anyway.

What level of funding is appropriate against our other national priorities, and whether or not the monies are being used effectively are valid questions; but this arguement against it is just silly.

[A18]

Funding for foreign fires and police should be cut off, yes, except for Iraq and Afghanistan.

[MasterJedi]

Jesus, this was dragged up from the depths!

[Emsworth]

This form of aid is probably unconstitutional; I see nothing in the Constitution about protecting the welfare of the people of other countries.

[A18]

This form of aid is probably unconstitutional; I see nothing in the Constitution about protecting the welfare of the people of other countries.

We had a discussion about that a few months back, and the general consensus was that foreign aid is unconstitutional, unless proposed by the president and ratified by 2/3 of the Senate, as an exercise of the president's treaty-making power.