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| | |-+  Labor Party Standing Committee thread: Endorsement voting
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Author Topic: Labor Party Standing Committee thread: Endorsement voting  (Read 29715 times)
bgwah
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« Reply #400 on: April 27, 2012, 12:55:34 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.
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« Reply #401 on: April 27, 2012, 12:58:15 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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« Reply #402 on: April 27, 2012, 12:59:58 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.
I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however. I think it's very important to do it because otherwise we risk losing our identity and eventually splitting as a party, and some of our members will join the Liberal party, which could potentially result in right-wing members of Liberal party leaving and resulting in an even bigger disaster than we currently have.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 01:02:17 am by Senator Seatown »Logged
Napoleon
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« Reply #403 on: April 27, 2012, 01:02:58 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

Okay, but my statement was before he said that.
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
Napoleon
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« Reply #404 on: April 27, 2012, 01:04:59 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.
I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however. I think it's very important to do it because otherwise we risk losing our identity and eventually splitting as a party, and some of our members will join the Liberal party, which could potentially result in right-wing members of Liberal party leaving and resulting in an even bigger disaster than we currently have.

I don't know why you would say that. Are the Liberals losing their identity for splitting between AndrewCT and Labor candidates? We will have to work together to defeat the Whigs.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 01:08:13 am by Governor Napoleon »Logged

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
bgwah
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« Reply #405 on: April 27, 2012, 01:09:43 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.
I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however.

Why don't you think Tweed is campaigning? Our ticket has been campaigning longer than any other. Tweed's campaign videos are a unique and heartfelt form of connecting with voters unused by any candidate.

I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

Okay, but my statement was before he said that.

So, does that mean we'll get your second preference? Grin
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seatown
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« Reply #406 on: April 27, 2012, 01:13:18 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.
I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however. I think it's very important to do it because otherwise we risk losing our identity and eventually splitting as a party, and some of our members will join the Liberal party, which could potentially result in right-wing members of Liberal party leaving and resulting in an even bigger disaster than we currently have.

I don't know why you would say that. Are the Liberals losing their identity for splitting between AndrewCT and Labor candidates? We will have to work together to defeat the Whigs.
No, the problem will be there if Labor dies and enough Labor members join Liberals - Liberal image changes because they are a small party, right-Liberals join the Whigs and Atlasia becomes a one-party state, because the left is divided and the right is with everybody that is at all to the right of center voting for Whigs. That means the right-wingers get one freebie of an election until left redefines itself. Also there will be a right-wing Senate to enact the will of that President. And don't blame it on me, some of the Labor members do not even want to consider endorsing you if you read the thread.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #407 on: April 27, 2012, 01:14:36 am »
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You' ll be somewhere behind Bgwah/Tweed and last cycle's Bgwah/Napoleon but probably. Wink
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
LastVoter
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« Reply #408 on: April 27, 2012, 01:16:43 am »
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You' ll be somewhere behind Bgwah/Tweed and last cycle's Bgwah/Napoleon but probably. Wink
? So you are endorsing a two-party state?
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Napoleon
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« Reply #409 on: April 27, 2012, 01:19:12 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.
I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however. I think it's very important to do it because otherwise we risk losing our identity and eventually splitting as a party, and some of our members will join the Liberal party, which could potentially result in right-wing members of Liberal party leaving and resulting in an even bigger disaster than we currently have.

I don't know why you would say that. Are the Liberals losing their identity for splitting between AndrewCT and Labor candidates? We will have to work together to defeat the Whigs.
No, the problem will be there if Labor dies and enough Labor members join Liberals - Liberal image changes because they are a small party, right-Liberals join the Whigs and Atlasia becomes a one-party state, because the left is divided and the right is with everybody that is at all to the right of center voting for Whigs. That means the right-wingers get one freebie of an election until left redefines itself. Also there will be a right-wing Senate to enact the will of that President. And don't blame it on me, some of the Labor members do not even want to consider endorsing you if you read the thread.

The Liberals are not a small party. We are in fact the largest party. Liberals will not join the Whigs. Some Labor members wont vote for me and some wont vote for Tweed. Unlike Tweed I have been an ally to the Labor Party, campaigning for Snowstalker and others. Tweed hasn't helped support the Left.
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
Napoleon
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« Reply #410 on: April 27, 2012, 01:22:57 am »
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You' ll be somewhere behind Bgwah/Tweed and last cycle's Bgwah/Napoleon but probably. Wink
? So you are endorsing a two-party state?

No. What in the world makes you think that? I was talking about write ins that I always end up including somewhere on my ballot.
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
LastVoter
seatown
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« Reply #411 on: April 27, 2012, 01:23:08 am »
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I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.
I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however. I think it's very important to do it because otherwise we risk losing our identity and eventually splitting as a party, and some of our members will join the Liberal party, which could potentially result in right-wing members of Liberal party leaving and resulting in an even bigger disaster than we currently have.

I don't know why you would say that. Are the Liberals losing their identity for splitting between AndrewCT and Labor candidates? We will have to work together to defeat the Whigs.
No, the problem will be there if Labor dies and enough Labor members join Liberals - Liberal image changes because they are a small party, right-Liberals join the Whigs and Atlasia becomes a one-party state, because the left is divided and the right is with everybody that is at all to the right of center voting for Whigs. That means the right-wingers get one freebie of an election until left redefines itself. Also there will be a right-wing Senate to enact the will of that President. And don't blame it on me, some of the Labor members do not even want to consider endorsing you if you read the thread.

The Liberals are not a small party. We are in fact the largest party. Liberals will not join the Whigs. Some Labor members wont vote for me and some wont vote for Tweed. Unlike Tweed I have been an ally to the Labor Party, campaigning for Snowstalker and others. Tweed hasn't helped support the Left.
More Labourites voted than the Liberals in the last election Wink
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« Reply #412 on: April 27, 2012, 01:24:45 am »
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You' ll be somewhere behind Bgwah/Tweed and last cycle's Bgwah/Napoleon but probably. Wink
? So you are endorsing a two-party state?

No. What in the world makes you think that? I was talking about write ins that I always end up including somewhere on my ballot.
I'm confused why write-ins?
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Napoleon
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« Reply #413 on: April 27, 2012, 01:30:07 am »
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Labor candidates did not campaign through PM, that's why. We didn't have any Liberal candidates getting out the vote.

Write ins are an expression of support.
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
LastVoter
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« Reply #414 on: April 27, 2012, 01:38:53 am »
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Labor candidates did not campaign through PM, that's why. We didn't have any Liberal candidates getting out the vote.

Write ins are an expression of support.
I didn't even know that you were allowed to campaign through PM until very recently because I haven't gotten any PM's related to Atlasia since I joined it. But after bgwah has pointed that campaigns traditionally PM'd people I will try to do that in my future campaigns and will also try to register some left-leaning Atlas posters to the game.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #415 on: April 27, 2012, 01:44:37 am »
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Excellent! Honestly though, I would like more members even if they are right wing. I reminded Phil to reregister for example, knowing he is also a Tweed voter. We need everyone to come back or join up.
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
Аverroës Nix
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« Reply #416 on: April 27, 2012, 08:40:34 am »
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To briefly add a Liberal perspective to this conversation, I think that Labor should nominate its own candidate. In fact, doing so might increase the odds of a leftist being elected to the Presidency.

Whatever recent polling might suggest, I don't think we have any clear idea of how many Libs and Labs and Lib/Lab-leaning independents are willing to preference Tweed. But speaking for myself, he probably won't even make my ballot, which as of now, looks like this:

[1] Napoleon
[2] Oakvale
[2.5] Hypothetical Labor candidate
[3] Clarence

Yes, I would legitimately rather see a Clarence administration that elect Tweed. I don't know who I'm closer to ideologically, but Clarence seems far easier to work with, and I think there's enough evidence that the game is in recovery that Tweed's radicalism will only be counter-productive.
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« Reply #417 on: April 27, 2012, 09:24:24 am »
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Do we have anyone that could run? There was Snowy, but he dropped out.
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« Reply #418 on: April 27, 2012, 01:21:10 pm »
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Young Tweed addresses the Left.

The daily struggle for reforms, for the amelioration of the condition of the workers within the framework of the existing social order, and for democratic institutions, offers to the Social-Democracy an indissoluble tie. The struggle for reforms is its means; the social revolution, its aim. Rosa Luxemberg, Reform or Revolution


Critics have noted the fantastic quality of my hitherto campaign.  An unapologetic disavowal of the Present, including its structures that are held so dear; and an emotional, though sometimes nebulous, fusion between the Old (ie, Atlasia before preferential voting spawned the UAC, Feb.-Apr. 2004) and an undefined Future.  This I referred to as “a systematic fusion of the reactionary-cultural with the revolutionary-political”.  This is the one-sentence definition of Tweedism, insofar as such a Symbolic construct can hold meaning.

And, of course, attempting to introduce a new system of thought that calls for nothing less than a disavowal of the present order, and naming it after myself, was bound to make a few enemies.  This is not a surprising occurrence; it’s been long accounted-for.  No, what may be a touch surprising to the untrained eye is that much of the resistance I face comes from within the ostensible ‘Left’.  

--

A crucial question: is this a time for Popular Frontism, or can we make-do with a split on the Left?  Here the lessons of the 1930s, and of the tragic Stalinist Third Period, hold enduring value.  It was through a split of the reformist- and –revolutionary left that fascism swept Europe.  And it was through the successive Inflection point of Popular Frontism that we saw the first building blocks of the welfare state and industrial unionism in the United States, that shook the bourgeois to its core (and led a more imaginative sect within the class to ponder an overt fascism, as we now see with Simfan’s entertainment of a Business Plot).

And here, I tell you plainly and openly, with a mix of dismay and emotional control: the conditions are not ripe for the Tweedist revolution.  This is clear.  I firmly believe that it is a historical and existential inevitability, that if Atlasia is to survive, it will have to become re-integrated with the community at-large, and will have to endure a serious and painful re-thinking of the structures it uses to define itself.  But, despite the pitiful turnout in the Midterms, and despite the success of Tweedism in altering the terms and conditions of discussion (I will note that the factions on the Left that oppose Tweedism, define themselves in large part through their explicit opposition), the structures by-and-large are holding on, will continue to exist in the immediate future, and must be confronted on their own totalitarian terms.

Another thing is painfully clear, and motivates this shift in Tweedism above all-else: imaginative solutions will not come from the Whig-Right.  Clarence’s useless, platitudinous ranting provides us will all the evidence we need to consider this a truism.  We must go on from here.

So with this, I call for the beginnings of a move towards a Left Popular-Frontism.  This beginning does not begin with resignation to preconceived points or ideas, it begins with a dialog.  And I extend an open invitation to a serious discussion between the Tweedists, the Labor Party, and the segment of the Liberal Party currently aligned with Napoleon, to develop a plan of action.

Verily,
Young Tweed.  
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LastVoter
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« Reply #419 on: April 27, 2012, 01:25:56 pm »
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Do we have anyone that could run? There was Snowy, but he dropped out.
We could always try to draft an independent left-winger like BRTD or lief or someone else(look at homelycooking's list of independents). My top choice would be bgwah, but he doesn't want to leave Tweed.
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« Reply #420 on: April 27, 2012, 01:59:58 pm »
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Me and Cincinattus were talking on the IRC recently and were vaguely considering running a quixotic independent campaign (in my case as a fun way to retire Wink) for the Presidency. I don't know whether we're going through with it, but in the event that I do I'd put myself forward for the Labor endorsement while remaining an independent candidate.

PS: While I'm no longer affiliated with any political party or hold any political office, it's obvious where my sympathies lie - depending on whether Cinci & I run or not Napoleon will be getting either my first or second preference, and I'd strongly favour electing a left-wing President.

[/trial balloon]
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« Reply #421 on: April 27, 2012, 02:05:02 pm »
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I'd say you and I are fairly compatible Oakvale... I'd make a run for your preference ;-)
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« Reply #422 on: April 27, 2012, 02:22:55 pm »
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We really don't need a candidate--most of us are already split between Napoleon and Tweed.

Also, I may be on a ticket, but not necessarily on the top.
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« Reply #423 on: April 27, 2012, 03:31:30 pm »
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Me and Cincinattus were talking on the IRC recently and were vaguely considering running a quixotic independent campaign (in my case as a fun way to retire Wink) for the Presidency. I don't know whether we're going through with it, but in the event that I do I'd put myself forward for the Labor endorsement while remaining an independent candidate.

PS: While I'm no longer affiliated with any political party or hold any political office, it's obvious where my sympathies lie - depending on whether Cinci & I run or not Napoleon will be getting either my first or second preference, and I'd strongly favour electing a left-wing President.

[/trial balloon]

A primary would also be very interesting. Wink
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« Reply #424 on: April 28, 2012, 06:12:18 pm »
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Tweed, as far as I can see, is the only one running a substantial campaign informed by real ideas.
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