Labor Party Standing Committee thread: Endorsement voting

[Napoleon]

The reality of the situation is that I am the most left wing ticket possible, Tweed and Snowstalker have net unfavorable ratings and perform poorly in match ups. I thought we learned a lesson about the Lefts approach after what happened in April but I guess we will keep electing Clarence, TJ, and Wormyguy to keep ourselves pure. Lattebaggers?

It might have been convent for me to select a Labor running mate but it would be an empty gesture and frankly dishonest. Kalwejt and I both have been great allies to this party, Kal especially as a founder, and I think we have a track record appealing to your party even if we aren't wearing the Labor label.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

F**k you all.

You're Newt Gingrich, Snowy, and this is your divorce records.

We are at a turning point here. Do we go with the unelectable Laborite or the front-runner Liberal?

I think the choice is clear if we want to prevent Whig domination of the federal government.

Also, where are Nathan and Snowy?

[LastVoter]

The reality of the situation is that I am the most left wing ticket possible, Tweed and Snowstalker have net unfavorable ratings and perform poorly in match ups. I thought we learned a lesson about the Lefts approach after what happened in April but I guess we will keep electing Clarence, TJ, and Wormyguy to keep ourselves pure. Lattebaggers?

It might have been convent for me to select a Labor running mate but it would be an empty gesture and frankly dishonest. Kalwejt and I both have been great allies to this party, Kal especially as a founder, and I think we have a track record appealing to your party even if we aren't wearing the Labor label.

Because you guys are trying to undermine them so you could turn the left into you're either with us or against us mentality. At the same time you don't use any harsh rhetoric against the right(RP, Clarence) that you waste on Tweed. Of course your goal is to win while my goal is for left to win, preferably the most-left candidate, so it's better for your campaign to destroy Tweed.

[Napoleon]

Harsh rhetoric against Tweed? Think again, or even read my response to his video attacking me. But of course we will overlook that because as Bgwah even said:

I see the Atlasian left has reverted to a dysfunctional joke.

[Oakvale]

I think it's frankly disingenuous to characterise Tweed's candidacy as merely a "left-wing" one...

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

In theory Labor party should disband if we don't get 75% support for our own candidate, since we are really doing nothing productive.

Like how the Liberal Party got 0% in the last Senate election? Again, I fail to understand your desire for hyperpartisanship for the sake of hyperpartisanship. What happened to Atlasia first?

Liberal party failed to nominate a single candidate. Look what happened to their turnout. same thing will happen to the Labor party if we can't shore up the support for our candidate. Our parties are doing a disservice to people sharing their ideologies, and we would *gasp* lose another election to right-wingers. It would be better for Tweed to form a radical left party and take the dissatisfied Labor members and have the rest of Labor go into the Liberal party if the Labor doesn't want to support it's own candidate.

Would you seriously prefer President Clarence to President Napoleon?

I personally am intending to vote for Napoleon because a) he has the best chance at winning and b) Snowstalker's crazy post-election rant kinda turned me off to the idea of him running in elections, frankly.

I respect the fact that we want the most left-wing candidate possible (excluding people like Tweed and such), but infighting like this is going to tear down the Atlasian left. We have the same ideas; it's the Whigs who are our enemies.

Yeah, the rant was dumb and I was angry. I again apologize for being an asshole that night.

[LastVoter]

Harsh rhetoric against Tweed? Think again, or even read my response to his video attacking me. But of course we will overlook that because as Bgwah even said:

I see the Atlasian left has reverted to a dysfunctional joke.

Bgwah is correct, which is why i am questioning the point of the Labor party. He is by far currently the best left candidate in the field, unfortunately he is a VP paired with tarnished Tweed. This would be a cakewalk for the right if you were to switch around positions of Yelnoc and Clarence on their ticket.
edit: You are also forgetting everything that happened before the video.

[Napoleon]

And you're saying I should focus on Clarence? I am trying to defeat Clarence! The only way to beat Clarence is to beat the unelectable leftist tickets that I am forced to compete for votes with. Who am I more likely to win a vote from, a Clarence supporter or a Snowstalker/Tweed/Oakvale supporter? Think about that. Trust me, I would MUCH rather focus on Clarence, your insistence on preventing that is the problem.

Clarence and Yelnoc have the highest favorabilities. Tweed and Snowstalker have the worst. It is the undeniable reality so don't blame me for saying it. I have no personal issue with anyone in the race but use some perspective.

[Napoleon]

Bgwah is my friend and ally, but I haven't seen any presidential ambition from him. I have a lot of respect for bgwah but I don't believe he wants to be President.

[Donerail]

Because you guys are trying to undermine them so you could turn the left into you're either with us or against us mentality. At the same time you don't use any harsh rhetoric against the right(RP, Clarence) that you waste on Tweed. Of course your goal is to win while my goal is for left to win, preferably the most-left candidate, so it's better for your campaign to destroy Tweed.

RP isn't a right-wing candidate, nor a left-wing one; he's a libertarian candidate...

[LastVoter]

And you're saying I should focus on Clarence? I am trying to defeat Clarence! The only way to beat Clarence is to beat the unelectable leftist tickets that I am forced to compete for votes with. Who am I more likely to win a vote from, a Clarence supporter or a Snowstalker/Tweed/Oakvale supporter? Think about that. Trust me, I would MUCH rather focus on Clarence, your insistence on preventing that is the problem.

Clarence and Yelnoc have the highest favorabilities. Tweed and Snowstalker have the worst. It is the undeniable reality so don't blame me for saying it. I have no personal issue with anyone in the race but use some perspective.

I think you are pretty much the responsible party for Tweed's unfavorable ratings, since you attacked him while he decided not to respond.  You are ignoring the elephant in the room: You would rather have Clarence win than Tweed or Snowstalker, and that's why the left refuses to help you.  You do realize that if you let Tweed have positive ratings, his voters are very likely to give you second preference, and Tweed's voting block isn't that large to eliminate you. You are paranoid of the off-chance that left will have more core supporters than your tickets, instead of trying to shore up the left so that every ticket has SS/Tweed/you in some order and as much turnout of that turnout is generated(but that could be a losing strategy for you, so you won't endorse it).

[LastVoter]

Do you remember how the left won last election? It was a non-aggression pact between Labor, Socialists and Liberals. But that doesn't work because Labor needed one or two more votes to gain the presidency, which could have happened since Labor had a registrational advantage now until it was killed a couple weeks ago.

[Napoleon]

With all due respect Seatown, the Labor candidate in this race is more anti-Tweed than I ever was. To say I am responsible for others not wanting to vote for a self-admitted Marxist is absurd. How in the world do I control how people perceive Snowstalker or Tweed? They have made their own beds. What makes you think I would prefer Clarence? The only horse I have in this race is the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. The idea that one of them making it to the final round over me is anymore a loss for me as it is for them is untrue but it won't be because of my vote.

[© tweed]

Young Tweed himself is right here: the only candidate who has even the most tedious understanding of the labor question, seeking any and all Labor Party members who are able and willing, and willing to take your questions.

[LastVoter]

Young Tweed himself is right here: the only candidate who has even the most tedious understanding of the labor question, seeking any and all Labor Party members who are able and willing, and willing to take your questions.

Tweed you realize we are talking about the left trying to be somewhat united and you are on a whole different page

[© tweed]

I think it's frankly disingenuous to characterise Tweed's candidacy as merely a "left-wing" one...

this is an important point: I have from the beginning hinted at the possibility that, within a purely Atlasian context, my candidacy is far-right.

[© tweed]

Young Tweed himself is right here: the only candidate who has even the most tedious understanding of the labor question, seeking any and all Labor Party members who are able and willing, and willing to take your questions.

Tweed you realize we are talking about the left trying to be somewhat united and you are on a whole different page

am I?

The daily struggle for reforms, for the amelioration of the condition of the workers within the framework of the existing social order, and for democratic institutions, offers to the Social-Democracy an indissoluble tie. The struggle for reforms is its means; the social revolution, its aim. Rosa Luxemberg, Reform or Revolution


Critics have noted the fantastic quality of my hitherto campaign.  An unapologetic disavowal of the Present, including its structures that are held so dear; and an emotional, though sometimes nebulous, fusion between the Old (ie, Atlasia before preferential voting spawned the UAC, Feb.-Apr. 2004) and an undefined Future.  This I referred to as “a systematic fusion of the reactionary-cultural with the revolutionary-political”.  This is the one-sentence definition of Tweedism, insofar as such a Symbolic construct can hold meaning.

And, of course, attempting to introduce a new system of thought that calls for nothing less than a disavowal of the present order, and naming it after myself, was bound to make a few enemies.  This is not a surprising occurrence; it’s been long accounted-for.  No, what may be a touch surprising to the untrained eye is that much of the resistance I face comes from within the ostensible ‘Left’. 

--

A crucial question: is this a time for Popular Frontism, or can we make-do with a split on the Left?  Here the lessons of the 1930s, and of the tragic Stalinist Third Period, hold enduring value.  It was through a split of the reformist- and –revolutionary left that fascism swept Europe.  And it was through the successive Inflection point of Popular Frontism that we saw the first building blocks of the welfare state and industrial unionism in the United States, that shook the bourgeois to its core (and led a more imaginative sect within the class to ponder an overt fascism, as we now see with Simfan’s entertainment of a Business Plot).

And here, I tell you plainly and openly, with a mix of dismay and emotional control: the conditions are not ripe for the Tweedist revolution.  This is clear.  I firmly believe that it is a historical and existential inevitability, that if Atlasia is to survive, it will have to become re-integrated with the community at-large, and will have to endure a serious and painful re-thinking of the structures it uses to define itself.  But, despite the pitiful turnout in the Midterms, and despite the success of Tweedism in altering the terms and conditions of discussion (I will note that the factions on the Left that oppose Tweedism, define themselves in large part through their explicit opposition), the structures by-and-large are holding on, will continue to exist in the immediate future, and must be confronted on their own totalitarian terms.

Another thing is painfully clear, and motivates this shift in Tweedism above all-else: imaginative solutions will not come from the Whig-Right.  Clarence’s useless, platitudinous ranting provides us will all the evidence we need to consider this a truism.  We must go on from here.

So with this, I call for the beginnings of a move towards a Left Popular-Frontism.  This beginning does not begin with resignation to preconceived points or ideas, it begins with a dialog.  And I extend an open invitation to a serious discussion between the Tweedists, the Labor Party, and the segment of the Liberal Party currently aligned with Napoleon, to develop a plan of action.

Verily,
Young Tweed. 

[Napoleon]

Nix, you realize the Labor Party voted to endorse me before Seatown intervened right? And I accepted their soul-searching and offered Snowstalker my second preference immediately at his first candidacy but now I don't know what I plan to do. I have stuck by my word, can't say the same for others.

[© tweed]

Nix, you realize the Labor Party voted to endorse me before Seatown intervened right? And I accepted their soul-searching and offered Snowstalker my second preference immediately at his first candidacy but now I don't know what I plan to do. I have stuck by my word, can't say the same for others.

was that the 3-2 vote with 12 not voting?

[LastVoter]

Nix, you realize the Labor Party voted to endorse me before Seatown intervened right? And I accepted their soul-searching and offered Snowstalker my second preference immediately at his first candidacy but now I don't know what I plan to do. I have stuck by my word, can't say the same for others.

With pathetic turn-out as Tweed pointed out. We were going to endorse Tweed before that too.

[Napoleon]

Others voted late or endorsed me in my thread Tweed.

[Napoleon]

Checked back a few pages, and now I see what you're talking about. I believe Nathan referred to it as a "tentative endorsement." They also tentatively endorsed Tweed, no? Is it Oakvale's turn now? 20RP12? Who knows?

Anyway, I think that a lukewarm endorsement is worth very little to your campaign. That's why I commented.

I agree but I want my support in this party to be more than merely lukewarm whether it is first preferences or second preferences. I have been called moderate hero, neoliberal, other terms, and I have been nothing but an ally to all leftists regardless of party. I even offered Snowstalker the CJO position to give him a chance to rehabilitate a positive image for himself and he told me he was taking a break until June and declined. Then he restarted his presidential campaign. The Left is truly a dysfunctional joke right now which is why I think having this conversation will put us back on the same page, or at least get us to a point where we understand how critical winning this election is. I haven't subscribed to the partisanship I see from some so it is foreign to me but it can be resolved.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

If I can interject here as a non-Labor person here.

I haven't endorsed anyone, and I don't plan to for another couple of weeks, but one thing is ABUNDANTLY clear... not just our version of the right, but the extreme right are stronger and more motivated than ever.

The last election was a sign how important it is that the left is united. Now, I mean 'united' as in preference flows. Regardless of where your first preference goes, where your second and third preferences go will be important.

That also means endorsing someone who will be able to make all progressives comfortable. Endorsing a candidate that you cannot insure against leaking preferences is a recipe for disaster.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I suggest you endorse either Napoleon or Oakvale. Tweed is too radical.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Okay, I'd like to clear a few points up here:

1. This party never even tentatively endorsed Tweed. I tentatively endorsed Tweed because I was given to understand that he had a better idea of what he was doing than he did. There was, rightly, a rebellion within the party and I, I think rightly, backed down when I realized that I was wrong and most of the party was right.
2. I do, however, think that we should endorse Napoleon over Snowstalker for many of the reasons that have been articulated.
3. I haven't been present for this debate so far because I had finals and I'm currently at a hotel whose vaunted 'high-speed internet' is anything but. I apologize for the inconvenience and going forward I hope to be able to spend more time on this.
4. The Labor Party voted to endorse Napoleon. The only reason I described this as 'tentative' was because the turnout was piss-poor.
5. I like Tweed and get on well with him. This was (referring back to point 1) why I had endorsed him and asked for the party's support in doing so. However, at the current moment I do not believe that this is the way for Atlasia.
6. I have no intention to make the Labor Party an auxiliary of the Liberals but the simple fact is that Snowstalker as a Labor Party candidate sucks. Of course it's better to have a leftist elected as opposed to a rightist. Of course we should support the most leftist candidate we can. But I'm of the belief that whoever we end up endorsing should at least have a relatively stable personality and not have quit and then unquit the race, the party, Atlasia, any number of other things.