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Author Topic: Anti-Conscription Amendment [Rejected]  (Read 5546 times)
Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2012, 07:52:01 am »
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Aye
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Fmr. President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2012, 07:56:12 am »
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I'm changing my vote to nay, but because I think the language needs to be tightened
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2012, 08:20:44 am »
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Conscription is slavery.
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President William McKinley
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2012, 08:46:03 am »
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Conscription is slavery.
Without conscription, slavery would still exist as the Union would not have had the manpower to win the war
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2012, 10:29:13 am »
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Conscription is slavery.
Without conscription, slavery would still exist as the Union would not have had the manpower to win the war

So using slavery to abolish slavery? Hmm.
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President William McKinley
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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2012, 10:41:44 am »
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Conscription is slavery.
Without conscription, slavery would still exist as the Union would not have had the manpower to win the war

So using slavery to abolish slavery? Hmm.
I am glad you do not seem to have had experiences in life which have made you realize how dangerous the world really is...maybe I am a pessimist and I am definitely less happy because of it
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Napoleon
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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2012, 03:16:40 pm »
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The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.
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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2012, 09:54:38 pm »
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I urge the Senate to defeat the Amendment.  Conscription is not pretty, nor do I support it, but it is a tool that we should have, if the need arises.

You first.

Okay.  I served in the army, but I will admit not in time of war.  Does that make my position that conscription can serve a purpose more valid?  Or is there no way that anyone can validly believe in a need for conscription in your opinion?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 09:56:23 pm by Junkie »Logged
Fmr. President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2012, 10:33:05 pm »
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The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

You know I respect your position on this. But often war doesn't always come about because of our policies.
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Mideast Assemblyman Ben
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« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2012, 10:51:28 am »
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The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

False.  The world is not dangerous because of our foreign policy (which is not even remotely right wing).  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, not vice versa.  We are also not using fear as a political tool.  We'red saying conscription is something that should be an option.  Not used, but an option.  It's the supporters of this Amendment, with all their talk of slavery, that are using fear as a political tool.
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« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2012, 11:12:50 am »
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The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

False.  The world is not dangerous because of our foreign policy (which is not even remotely right wing).  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, not vice versa.  We are also not using fear as a political tool.  We'red saying conscription is something that should be an option.  Not used, but an option.  It's the supporters of this Amendment, with all their talk of slavery, that are using fear as a political tool.

You don't think the ability to introduce a draft and send people to die for the sake of some folly is a legitimate fear? Conscription is a massive infringement of human and civil rights, and quite frankly, we're no better than our enemies if we have to resort to that.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2012, 12:55:33 pm »
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The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

False.  The world is not dangerous because of our foreign policy (which is not even remotely right wing).  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, not vice versa.  We are also not using fear as a political tool.  We'red saying conscription is something that should be an option.  Not used, but an option.  It's the supporters of this Amendment, with all their talk of slavery, that are using fear as a political tool.

Well, you're both at least half way there.  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, and it can sometimes "make the world dangerous".  That's all dependent on how we choose to respond, obviously.
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Junkie
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« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2012, 06:44:38 pm »
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The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

False.  The world is not dangerous because of our foreign policy (which is not even remotely right wing).  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, not vice versa.  We are also not using fear as a political tool.  We'red saying conscription is something that should be an option.  Not used, but an option.  It's the supporters of this Amendment, with all their talk of slavery, that are using fear as a political tool.

Well, you're both at least half way there.  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, and it can sometimes "make the world dangerous".  That's all dependent on how we choose to respond, obviously.

Can't this become a "chicken or the egg" type argument?
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2012, 12:31:19 am »
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I'll change my vote to Nay. The amendment still isn't failing by a majority though. I realized I haven't changed the title of this thread, which probably doesn't help get attention, so I apologize for that. Either way, continue!
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« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2012, 12:42:34 am »
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abstain
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2012, 01:11:34 am »
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I'll change my vote to Nay. The amendment still isn't failing by a majority though. I realized I haven't changed the title of this thread, which probably doesn't help get attention, so I apologize for that. Either way, continue!

Yea, something tells me that might help. Call it a hunch. Tongue
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MOP
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« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2012, 11:46:29 am »
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Nay
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Lt. Governor TJ
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« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2012, 10:00:23 am »
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New attempt at a passable amendment:

Quote
Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2012, 10:13:40 am »
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The amendment has failed.

Before we move on to dealing with the other amendments. Jake, would you consider withdrawing your amendment for the sake of the consideration of TJ's? And/or I'd like Napoleon's input on these amendments before we move on to a new vote.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2012, 06:57:59 pm »
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The wording is better on this amendment but I still consider it unfriendly. Where is Jake's amendment?
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R2D2
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« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2012, 08:35:05 pm »
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I withdraw my amendment on the grounds that I was never being serious.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2012, 10:55:24 pm »
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So, since Napoleon is unfriendly to the amendment, and Jake withdraws his previous, we are now voting on the following amendment. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain:

Quote
Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households.



Aye.
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Lt. Governor TJ
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« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2012, 10:56:16 pm »
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Aye
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Fmr. President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2012, 11:02:49 pm »
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So, since Napoleon is unfriendly to the amendment, and Jake withdraws his previous, we are now voting on the following amendment. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain:

Quote
Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households.



Aye.

I would like to propose an amendment to this amendment.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2012, 01:00:37 am »
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Nay Tongue
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