Anti-Conscription Amendment [Rejected]

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye

[Secretary Polnut]

I'm changing my vote to nay, but because I think the language needs to be tightened

[dialectical fetishist]

Conscription is slavery.

[Senator Clarence]

Conscription is slavery.

Without conscription, slavery would still exist as the Union would not have had the manpower to win the war

[dialectical fetishist]

Conscription is slavery.

Without conscription, slavery would still exist as the Union would not have had the manpower to win the war

So using slavery to abolish slavery? Hmm.

[Senator Clarence]

Conscription is slavery.

Without conscription, slavery would still exist as the Union would not have had the manpower to win the war

So using slavery to abolish slavery? Hmm.

I am glad you do not seem to have had experiences in life which have made you realize how dangerous the world really is...maybe I am a pessimist and I am definitely less happy because of it

[Senator Napoleon]

The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

[Junkie]

I urge the Senate to defeat the Amendment.  Conscription is not pretty, nor do I support it, but it is a tool that we should have, if the need arises.

You first.

Okay.  I served in the army, but I will admit not in time of war.  Does that make my position that conscription can serve a purpose more valid?  Or is there no way that anyone can validly believe in a need for conscription in your opinion?

[Secretary Polnut]

The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

You know I respect your position on this. But often war doesn't always come about because of our policies.

[Senator Ben]

The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

False.  The world is not dangerous because of our foreign policy (which is not even remotely right wing).  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, not vice versa.  We are also not using fear as a political tool.  We'red saying conscription is something that should be an option.  Not used, but an option.  It's the supporters of this Amendment, with all their talk of slavery, that are using fear as a political tool.

[dialectical fetishist]

The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

False.  The world is not dangerous because of our foreign policy (which is not even remotely right wing).  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, not vice versa.  We are also not using fear as a political tool.  We'red saying conscription is something that should be an option.  Not used, but an option.  It's the supporters of this Amendment, with all their talk of slavery, that are using fear as a political tool.

You don't think the ability to introduce a draft and send people to die for the sake of some folly is a legitimate fear? Conscription is a massive infringement of human and civil rights, and quite frankly, we're no better than our enemies if we have to resort to that.

[Cincinnatus]

The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

False.  The world is not dangerous because of our foreign policy (which is not even remotely right wing).  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, not vice versa.  We are also not using fear as a political tool.  We'red saying conscription is something that should be an option.  Not used, but an option.  It's the supporters of this Amendment, with all their talk of slavery, that are using fear as a political tool.

Well, you're both at least half way there.  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, and it can sometimes "make the world dangerous".  That's all dependent on how we choose to respond, obviously.

[Junkie]

The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

False.  The world is not dangerous because of our foreign policy (which is not even remotely right wing).  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, not vice versa.  We are also not using fear as a political tool.  We'red saying conscription is something that should be an option.  Not used, but an option.  It's the supporters of this Amendment, with all their talk of slavery, that are using fear as a political tool.

Well, you're both at least half way there.  Our foreign policy is a response to international events, and it can sometimes "make the world dangerous".  That's all dependent on how we choose to respond, obviously.

Can't this become a "chicken or the egg" type argument?

[President Marokai]

I'll change my vote to Nay. The amendment still isn't failing by a majority though. I realized I haven't changed the title of this thread, which probably doesn't help get attention, so I apologize for that. Either way, continue!

[bgwah]

abstain

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'll change my vote to Nay. The amendment still isn't failing by a majority though. I realized I haven't changed the title of this thread, which probably doesn't help get attention, so I apologize for that. Either way, continue!

Yea, something tells me that might help. Call it a hunch.

[MOPolitico]

Nay

[TJ in Wisco]

New attempt at a passable amendment:

Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households.

[President Marokai]

The amendment has failed.

Before we move on to dealing with the other amendments. Jake, would you consider withdrawing your amendment for the sake of the consideration of TJ's? And/or I'd like Napoleon's input on these amendments before we move on to a new vote.

[Senator Napoleon]

The wording is better on this amendment but I still consider it unfriendly. Where is Jake's amendment?

[Diabolical Minds Think Alike]

I withdraw my amendment on the grounds that I was never being serious.

[President Marokai]

So, since Napoleon is unfriendly to the amendment, and Jake withdraws his previous, we are now voting on the following amendment. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain:

Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households.

Aye.

[TJ in Wisco]

Aye

[Secretary Polnut]

So, since Napoleon is unfriendly to the amendment, and Jake withdraws his previous, we are now voting on the following amendment. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain:

Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households.

Aye.

I would like to propose an amendment to this amendment.

[Senator Napoleon]

Nay