Anti-Conscription Amendment [Rejected]

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I obviously don't support a peacetime draft - but to put it in the Constitution means that's kind of it. I understand the 'issues' people have with conscription and generally I'm a very strong opponent in general of it... however

It should be an option, for example, if the nation itself is under direct attack by the armed forces of another sovereign state.

So, I do support the amendment

AYE.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I change my vote on the amendment to Aye.

Grr.. The way TJ's amendment is worded isn't exactly what I would like. I hate doing this, but change my vote to Abstain. Attack on our soil could be interpreted to mean many things.

Hmmm, I'm re-reading it too... the term is too broad.

I would support an amendment which is clearly specific and states an attack by the armed forces of another sovereign state on the Atlasian mainland. But also safeguards such as minimum proportion of the armed forces that can be conscripted and also specify their roles.

But to completely remove the option for the most extreme of circumstances is honestly a little too emotional and its not like people are going to be immediately rounded up and shipped off to some manufactured war.

If you make the conditions incredibly strict... I still have an issue with conscription but I don't believe a total ban belongs in the Constitution.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

You first.

Absurd.  I'm not advocating a Draft; I'm saying it shouldn't be abolished.  The idea that a government official can't hold this position without joining themselves is specious reasoning.

Absolutely not. If we are to strip liberty, we ought to be the first to be stripped.

Again... being a touch melodramatic there me thinks...

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm changing my vote to nay, but because I think the language needs to be tightened

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

The world is only as dangerous as our desire to pursue an irrational right wing foreign policy allows it to be. I've been a leading voice for foreign policy reform to make this world safer and I do not believe in using fear as a political tool.

You know I respect your position on this. But often war doesn't always come about because of our policies.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

So, since Napoleon is unfriendly to the amendment, and Jake withdraws his previous, we are now voting on the following amendment. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain:

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Aye.

I would like to propose an amendment to this amendment.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm voting nay, and will put forward another amendment should this one fail.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm voting nay, and will put forward another amendment should this one fail.

I might as well, maybe we could work on it.

As to the amendment, I think it is to restrictive and unworkable, thus I vote

At what point can we expect to see this amendment?

Apologies...

Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households. No conscripted solider will be compelled to serve in a front-line capacity.

Basically this... I don't expect those opposed to vote for this. It pretty much says that conscripted soldiers will on be on the front-line if they volunteer.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Yes... just let it die.

Nay.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Aye - with reservations

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I just find it strange that I believe there are legitimate reasons to oppose the extreme step of making a constitutional amendment.

I'm all for a legislative instrument to make it next to impossible, as opposed to a constitutional ban, which would and I believe that would be a mistake.

It's not moderate-heroism in all cases.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I have determined to change my vote to Nay...

Because I believe this should go to the people to determine, as it effects them.

However, I will be personally opposing such a change.


Respectfully, Senator, and only able to speak for myself, I believe that's a pretty unfair mischaracterisation.

My objections are not based primarily on what you are talking about.

I don't believe a constitution is the place for such things - I believe that there are three purposes for a constitution - 1. to determine how the government is run, 2. to enumerate the rights, powers and responsibilities of the federal and regional governments and individuals and 3. to create heads of power.

I believe a legislative instrument is appropriate, a Constitutional amendment is a melodramatic step, one that I see as unnecessary in practice.

I'll support a Bill, I won't support a Constitutional amendment, and I personally reject any allegations of cowardice, I just happen to be standing on my principles.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

If it passes, I will be disappointed, but I owe the people the right to vote on it.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Sweet merciful crap...

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think this whole issue has just been immersed into an emotional bog from which there is no escape.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Aye - only because if this doesn't pass in this current form it'll be a carbuncle on the Senate.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

And the amendment will go nowhere... excellent.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm curious to know what the Senate's view is on the fact that it's an amendment.

Would there be strong enough support for a legislative instrument, rather than an amendment?

I know Scott and Jake feel very passionately about this, but the votes for an amendment just aren't there.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

This Amendment has failed.

I would be startled if an amendment you liked did get up - but my term is nearly over so let's see how you do with my replacement