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Author Topic: What makes you Dem/Repub/Indep?  (Read 27872 times)
patrick1
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« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2005, 11:17:21 pm »
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I'm a Republican because I want to:
--abolish Social Security and Medicare;
--cut the size of the federal government in half;
--abolish federal judicial review of the Bill of Rights as it relates to the States;
--greatly increase the size of the State governments;
--keep our armed forces second to none;
--get federal government out of almost every domestic affair;
--and adopt a fair and simple tax.

The Republican party stands for none of these-save the armed forces part.  The rest they pay lip service to to get votes.  I am a Republican but you have to realize the hypocrisy within ones own party.
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A18
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« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2005, 11:18:48 pm »
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Voting Republican helps move the country in that direction, though.
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nini2287
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« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2005, 11:20:23 pm »
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What do you think happens to money when it gets put in a bank?

Taxes do not get paid and the money does not go back into the economy
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J-Mann
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« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2005, 11:21:54 pm »
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Economically, I am a staunch believer in progresive taxation, as I feel putting money into the hands of the poor and middle class will not only help those geniunely in need, but this money will more likely be spent, rather than just thrown in the bank.  I believe that everyone has the right to an education, health care and a retirement, and if somebody chooses to use a private provider, that's their choice, but the money should not get a tax deduction (I don't believe in school vouchers).

I agree with you on most of this, except for the "putting money in the bank" part.  If the poor and the middle class want to save money in a bank, they should go for it.  It's being redistributed through loans, etc. anyway and used in other segments of the economy.  But I don't want to take you out of context either - I think your overall meaning is that you'd rather have the poor and middle class inject their money into the economy than not use it.  Putting it in banks is injecting it into the economy.  It only does them no good if the government has it.
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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

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A18
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« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2005, 11:23:41 pm »
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What do you think happens to money when it gets put in a bank?

Taxes do not get paid and the money does not go back into the economy

You know what a loan is?
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J-Mann
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« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2005, 11:24:52 pm »
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I'm a Republican because I want to:
--abolish Social Security and Medicare;
--cut the size of the federal government in half;
--abolish federal judicial review of the Bill of Rights as it relates to the States;
--greatly increase the size of the State governments;
--keep our armed forces second to none;
--get federal government out of almost every domestic affair;
--and adopt a fair and simple tax.

The Republican party stands for none of these-save the armed forces part.  The rest they pay lip service to to get votes.  I am a Republican but you have to realize the hypocrisy within ones own party.

Voting Republican helps move the country in that direction, though.

I think that ideologically the Republicans stand for more of those than just the armed forces part, but they certainly can't (and won't) be done on a whim.  And while Republicans advocate keeping the federal government out of economic affairs, they take a different line when it comes to social issues.  But as for the rest of them...the Rs would move us more in that direction; slowly, very slowly.
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Political Compass --
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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

It's easy to stand up for free speech when you agree with the speaker. - less so when you don't.
nini2287
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« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2005, 11:27:12 pm »
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What do you think happens to money when it gets put in a bank?

Taxes do not get paid and the money does not go back into the economy

You know what a loan is?

When I receive my paycheck, I put in the bank, and when I go to the ATM to take it out, i haven't lost any money because of taxes.
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A18
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« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2005, 11:27:40 pm »
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I don't think Republicans want the federal government involved in social issues. Things like the FMA are only proposed to keep federal activist judges from shoving things down the throats of the States.
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A18
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« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2005, 11:28:29 pm »
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What do you think happens to money when it gets put in a bank?

Taxes do not get paid and the money does not go back into the economy

You know what a loan is?

When I receive my paycheck, I put in the bank, and when I go to the ATM to take it out, i haven't lost any money because of taxes.

What does that have to do with anything? You said the money doesn't go back into the economy, and it does; the bank gives out loans.
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J-Mann
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« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2005, 11:28:50 pm »
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When I receive my paycheck, I put in the bank, and when I go to the ATM to take it out, i haven't lost any money because of taxes.

Dude...read my above post.  That's not all a bank does.
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Political Compass --
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

It's easy to stand up for free speech when you agree with the speaker. - less so when you don't.
nini2287
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« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2005, 11:30:00 pm »
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When I receive my paycheck, I put in the bank, and when I go to the ATM to take it out, i haven't lost any money because of taxes.

Dude...read my above post.  That's not all a bank does.

Aha I missed your above post and after reading it, I agree with you and you caught my drift.
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patrick1
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« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2005, 11:36:28 pm »
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To argue with Phillip's points above

The Republican party shouldn't and won't abolish Social Security or Medicare.  The programs are flawed but what is so wrong with ensuring that the aged aren't destitute or beholden to charity.
The federal gov't has grow under Republican admins.
I feel the fed should hold supremacy over states
Since when have states been beacons of fiscal discipline and responsibility.
I am for a stong defense and agree with large defense layouts.
Is Michael Powell a proponent of getting government out of domestic affairs? Gay marriage, drug laws, abortion rights.
A fair and simple tax- so Corporations can dodge taxes by having tax shelters in Bermuda.

Above, I am purely playing devils advocate.  I am a Republican and think that their ideas will make America better.  However, we do not have a monopoly on the truth and are hypocritical in some ways--  I believe less than the democrats.
Power corrupts and the Republicans in power have reneged on many of their "contracts".  However, I believe that were Dems in ofice spending, taxes etc would be worse.   
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JohnG
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« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2005, 11:52:24 pm »
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I am an independent, because my views fall someplace in between libertarians and Republicans.  Like both parties, I am economically, extremely conservative.  But my social views fall some place in between the Republican the Libertarian party.  In fact, I would consider myself a libertarian except for two issues.  The first is drug legalization.  I'm not completely convinced it's a good idea, but more importantly, I know that is a horrible idea.  Until we and the cradle to grave welfare that is available to some people America.  This second in the most important issue to me is foreign-policy.  I believe in a much stronger and more aggressive foreign-policy and the libertarians do.

I was raised in a Republican household and registered Republican for many years. I was thrilled in 1994, when Republicans began their rise in Congress and again in 1996 when they increased their standing in Congress, and again in 98, and in 2000 2002 and now in 2004.  I believed in the contract with America.  I thought the Republicans were truly going to make a smaller US government.  That they were truly going to get the government out of the places in our lives it doesn't long.  But they didn't do that.  In fact most didn't even fulfill their pledge of a three terms limit.  So while I fully support President Bush.  I cannot count myself a Republican until they show that they truly are for smaller government.

As for my reasons for not being a libertarian, Iíll leave the drug issue alone for the time being and focus on the foreign-policy aspect.  America must have a strong military and our military must be present throughout the world in order to help ensure our safety and the safety of the free world.  Today no country in the world has the ability to stand at United States militarily.  But if we were to simply walk away, if we were to not be the major military presence throughout the world, it would invite terrorists and dictators to start consolidating their power and slowly grow.  So that one day 20, 30, 40 years from now they would have the power to take on American.  And it would be too late for us to do anything about it.  Also, the only way to defeat terrorism is by spreading democracy and freedom throughout the world.  Many people will say, oh democracy won't work in the Middle East.  They don't want.  I say, that's ridiculous.  Democracies have worked in every region of the world's been tried.  It worked in far Asia with Japan and South Korea.  Its work in Europe, it's worked in the Middle East with Israel and Turkey.  Its worth and worked in North America, South America, and Africa.  There's no reason why Iraq or Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia or any country in the Middle East, could not be a democracy.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2005, 12:07:33 am by JohnG »Logged
A18
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« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2005, 12:21:08 am »
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The Republican party shouldn't and won't abolish Social Security or Medicare.

I'm hoping we get some Supreme Court justices who actually care about the Constitution, so that those programs can be struck down as blatantly unconstitutional, which they are.
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J-Mann
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« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2005, 01:12:46 am »
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The Republican party shouldn't and won't abolish Social Security or Medicare.

I'm hoping we get some Supreme Court justices who actually care about the Constitution, so that those programs can be struck down as blatantly unconstitutional, which they are.

So in that instance, what do you do to repay the people who have payed in for 40 years but haven't reached retirement age to receive any of their money yet, like my father?  Do you just tell them, "Tough sh**t?"  No matter how hawkish you may be, Philip, you can't think that's right.
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Political Compass --
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

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WMS
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« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2005, 03:41:37 am »
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It was interesting to read your opinions in the thread on the Republican Party split.
Senator WMS: Why are you libertarian when your social score is positive (authoritarian) while your economic score is negative (economic left)?  Admittedly, your scores are very close to neutrality, but I expected a libertarian to be in the opposite quadrant of the political compass.

Insomnia is irritating...

Anyway, first off, just call me WMS - the Senator bit is just there to clarify things in Fantasy Elections Land.

Actually, I am not libertarian, but lean populist instead. I voted Libertarian because, well, look at the Presidential candidates? Do you see a populist anywhere? I went with 'least objectionable third party candidate'. So you're right - I am really a soc right econ left (although not too far in either direction) individual.

Now, as to the ever-popular why...

Why not a Dem: well, I'm pro-life (a pretty big factor actually), pro-personal responsibility, pro-gun rights, pro-efficient government, have great respect for the small entrepreneurs who somehow create a self-sustaining business, anti-affirmative action, pro-military, not a pacifist, I don't 'blame America first' for things, anti-crime and anti-criminal, anti-Hollywood (and the, yes, coarseness of the culture), pro-religion in general (I think it's a good thing, and despise the secularists who want to scour it from public life), I believe the nuclear family and the middle class is the absolute heart and soul of America - these are the people who hold the country together and propel us forward (note that I include the working class as part of this group), anti-the parasitic layer of the lower classes (as separate from the working poor, who I strongly support lifting up out of poverty), and in general I strongly dislike the leftist interest groups that dominate the Dems. Also, the Dems are too tolerant of public sector corruption.

Why not a Rep: pro-some form of national health care, pro-workers' rights, pro-some system that enables everyone to get a good education, I'm not rabidly anti-government, generally pro-union (although the antics of some U.S. unions really get trying at times), anti-corporate/business abuses (Enron, anyone?), pro-regulation (within reason, but the idea that businesses are going to be angels without anyone looking over their shoulders is ridiculous), not very fond of the upper classes as a whole (especially their parasitic layer), anti-imperialist (to balance out my anti-pacifist side; just call me Trumanesque), I think some of the Republicans need to loosen up just a tad on some things (stop trying to ban my fantasy and sci-fi books, damnit!), pro-marijuana legalization (and taxation; subject to rules combining elements of tobacco and alcohol regulations), anti-prison abuses (balancing out my anti-criminal stance), I think companies have responsibilities that reach beyond just making their stockholders wealthy, and in general I strongly dislike a lot of the interest groups that dominate the Reps. Also, the Reps are too tolerant of private sector corruption.

And in general: The Golden Rule > The Virtue of Selfishness

*second edit*
The Doctrine of Personal Responsibility.

What you do, you pay the price for, whether good or bad. You NEVER make another pay the price for your own actions, regardless of where on the political spectrum you are.
*second edit*

That combined with my Doctrine Of Personal Responsibility leads me to conclude that neither party fits my beliefs, and is not likely to anytime soon. I also think both parties warp the hell out of electoral law to preserve their own power, and consider neither one to truly be interested in serving the needs of the people. I am concerned with the degradation of the culture, and hold both parties culpable for that.

*new edited part* I'm also pro-gay rights, pro-civil unions, and ambivalent on gay marriage. Added to that, I'm fairly federalist on a lot of things.

*severely new edited part* Here is the start of a good discussion of my abortion position. Yes, I'm time-warping the hell out of this post now, but tough. Tongue
*end severely new edited part*

You should treat people as people, not as objects. And to respect life, that means respecting the lives of the unborn and animals, too. How you - and society in general - treat those who are weakest is the test of your - and a society's - ultimate character. And far too many people put personal selfishness over personal compassion, in BOTH parties.

Did that make it clear to everyone? ^_^
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 02:41:16 pm by Senator WMS »Logged

The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class.  Neither Republicans or Democrats.
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J-Mann
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« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2005, 04:52:30 am »
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WMS - that was perfectly clear to me.  I'm also a populist (a little further in each direction than you), and except for marijuana legalization, I think you and I match up on just about everything. 

And I hope you don't mind if I use your quote - "How you treat those who are weakest is the test of your ultimate character" - that is fantastic and quite true.
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Political Compass --
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

It's easy to stand up for free speech when you agree with the speaker. - less so when you don't.
opebo
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« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2005, 05:43:35 am »
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I am a Republican, because the Republican party is the only party to stand up to those bloody murderous harlots~yes, those women who support and or have had abortions!
That hellish practice will end once our beloved President is able to put Scalia or Thomas in the driver's seat of the Supreme Court, and another Ultra-Conservative S.C.J. \

Glory, Glory, Halleluiah!† What a day that will be!

Funny post, but you do realize that about half the population over here actually believes this kind of crap?  I suppose it seems funny if you have a British passport.. but for those of us stuck with the sinking ship, it is hard to laugh.  Thanks for trying though - I did chuckle a bit.
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WMS
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« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2005, 05:21:54 pm »
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WMS - that was perfectly clear to me.  I'm also a populist (a little further in each direction than you), and except for marijuana legalization, I think you and I match up on just about everything. 

And I hope you don't mind if I use your quote - "How you treat those who are weakest is the test of your ultimate character" - that is fantastic and quite true.
Hurrah! A kindred spirit out there! ^_^ I've got to add a thing or two to that post, though, since I forgot to do it the first time.

Feel free to use that quote! I hope it spreads...
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The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class.  Neither Republicans or Democrats.
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Gabu
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« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2005, 05:26:39 pm »
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And I hope you don't mind if I use your quote - "How you treat those who are weakest is the test of your ultimate character" - that is fantastic and quite true.

It's a lot like a quote that I recall hearing a while back: "The true measure of a person's character is not how that person treats their fellow man, who may or may not be out to get that person, but how the person treats defenseless animals, who harbor no ill will or negative feelings towards anyone in the world."

I like both of them a lot.
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WMS
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« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2005, 05:28:17 pm »
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And I hope you don't mind if I use your quote - "How you treat those who are weakest is the test of your ultimate character" - that is fantastic and quite true.

It's a lot like a quote that I recall hearing a while back: "The true measure of a person's character is not how that person treats their fellow man, who may or may not be out to get that person, but how the person treats defenseless animals, who harbor no ill will or negative feelings towards anyone in the world."

I like both of them a lot.

Also a nice quote, my version just extends it to cover all of those who are weak. And thanks for the compliment.
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« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2005, 05:40:50 pm »
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I'm a Republican because I beleive in balanced budgets, low taxes, low government spending, and smaller government. I believe in the ideals of the Reagan Revolution.
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« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2005, 05:52:13 pm »
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Independent only because I'm too supportive of capitalism to be a Democrat. Also, I don't like major parties. The compass score in my sig says it best.
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Jim Valvano
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« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2005, 01:53:20 pm »
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My status as an independent comes after many years of constantly switching parties. I started out as a Republican because my parents were. By 2003 I had grown tired of how they claimed to be the party of social values, fiscal responsibility, and upholding the law. It became apparent that they were in reality none of these. North Carolina's state motto is "To be rather than to seem", I wanted to find a party which actually was a party of the aforemention qualities rather than merely seeming to be one. The Constitution party clearly was the best candidate so I joined it, but the honeymoon was brief.

One thing about me is, I really don't like to belong to a party unless I completely agree with every last plank on their platform. In light of my disagreement with the Constitution party over the death penalty, it became apparent to me that I would have to leave my newfound party. With no other party even close to my views, I became an independent.
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WMS
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« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2005, 06:05:06 pm »
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It was interesting to read your opinions in the thread on the Republican Party split.
Senator WMS: Why are you libertarian when your social score is positive (authoritarian) while your economic score is negative (economic left)?  Admittedly, your scores are very close to neutrality, but I expected a libertarian to be in the opposite quadrant of the political compass.

Insomnia is irritating...

Anyway, first off, just call me WMS - the Senator bit is just there to clarify things in Fantasy Elections Land.

Actually, I am not libertarian, but lean populist instead. I voted Libertarian because, well, look at the Presidential candidates? Do you see a populist anywhere? I went with 'least objectionable third party candidate'. So you're right - I am really a soc right econ left (although not too far in either direction) individual.

Now, as to the ever-popular why...

Why not a Dem: well, I'm pro-life (a pretty big factor actually), pro-personal responsibility, pro-gun rights, pro-efficient government, have great respect for the small entrepreneurs who somehow create a self-sustaining business, anti-affirmative action, pro-military, not a pacifist, I don't 'blame America first' for things, anti-crime and anti-criminal, anti-Hollywood (and the, yes, coarseness of the culture), pro-religion in general (I think it's a good thing, and despise the secularists who want to scour it from public life), I believe the nuclear family and the middle class is the absolute heart and soul of America - these are the people who hold the country together and propel us forward (note that I include the working class as part of this group), anti-the parasitic layer of the lower classes (as separate from the working poor, who I strongly support lifting up out of poverty), and in general I strongly dislike the leftist interest groups that dominate the Dems. Also, the Dems are too tolerant of public sector corruption.

Why not a Rep: pro-some form of national health care, pro-workers' rights, pro-some system that enables everyone to get a good education, I'm not rabidly anti-government, generally pro-union (although the antics of some U.S. unions really get trying at times), anti-corporate/business abuses (Enron, anyone?), pro-regulation (within reason, but the idea that businesses are going to be angels without anyone looking over their shoulders is ridiculous), not very fond of the upper classes as a whole (especially their parasitic layer), anti-imperialist (to balance out my anti-pacifist side; just call me Trumanesque), I think some of the Republicans need to loosen up just a tad on some things (stop trying to ban my fantasy and sci-fi books, damnit!), pro-marijuana legalization (and taxation; subject to rules combining elements of tobacco and alcohol regulations), anti-prison abuses (balancing out my anti-criminal stance), I think companies have responsibilities that reach beyond just making their stockholders wealthy, and in general I strongly dislike a lot of the interest groups that dominate the Reps. Also, the Reps are too tolerant of private sector corruption.

And in general: The Golden Rule > The Virtue of Selfishness

*second edit*
The Doctrine of Personal Responsibility.

What you do, you pay the price for, whether good or bad. You NEVER make another pay the price for your own actions, regardless of where on the political spectrum you are.
*second edit*

That combined with my Doctrine Of Personal Responsibility leads me to conclude that neither party fits my beliefs, and is not likely to anytime soon. I also think both parties warp the hell out of electoral law to preserve their own power, and consider neither one to truly be interested in serving the needs of the people. I am concerned with the degradation of the culture, and hold both parties culpable for that.

*new edited part* I'm also pro-gay rights, pro-civil unions, and ambivalent on gay marriage. Added to that, I'm fairly federalist on a lot of things.

You should treat people as people, not as objects. And to respect life, that means respecting the lives of the unborn and animals, too. How you - and society in general - treat those who are weakest is the test of your - and a society's - ultimate character. And far too many people put personal selfishness over personal compassion, in BOTH parties.

Did that make it clear to everyone? ^_^
bump for both edit and to see if anyone else will say something
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The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class.  Neither Republicans or Democrats.
Political Beliefs Summarized:
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