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Author Topic: Greece 'far right' rejects austerity after 'socialists' capitulate!  (Read 4375 times)
Beet
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« on: February 10, 2012, 12:07:01 pm »
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A leader of Greece’s governing coalition pushed back against German demands for deeper budget cuts to get the bailout needed to prevent a financial collapse.

In Athens, unions struck for the second time this week and police used tear gas to counter protesters. George Karatzaferis, who heads one of the three parties supporting interim Prime Minister Lucas Papademos, said he wouldn’t support austerity measures worked out for a rescue. He spoke hours after German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told lawmakers in Berlin that Greece was missing deficit targets.

“What has particularly bothered me is the humiliation of the country,” Karatzaferis, whose Laos party has 16 members in the 300-seat parliament, said in televised comments. “Clearly Greece can’t and shouldn’t do without the European Union but it could do without the German boot.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-10/greece-pushes-back-against-german-demands-for-deeper-cuts-to-receive-aid.html

This is why I am supporting Melenchon this year. The European 'left' has been a disaster and more neo-liberal than the neo-liberals.

They're being shown up by the likes of Karatzaferis (Orthodox Rally) and Victor Orban.
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 12:21:07 pm »
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To be fair, the communists are not part of the government, so I doubt they are backing the deal either.
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 12:44:43 pm »
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And it looks like Orthodox Rally only pulled their support after Germany had already slapped down the deal. So perhaps it was just a PR move.

It's kind of silly for Germany to make all these demands and then slap down the deal a day after. I don't see what purpose there is for such a thing besides humiliation.
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 04:24:29 pm »
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I heard from a Greek poster on another forum that the LAOS leader has eventually withdrawn from the government.  The budget vote, scheduled for Monday evening (Greek time, obviously), will serve as a vote of confidence; if it fails, the government falls.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 04:27:35 pm by Bacontard »Logged

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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 04:42:57 pm »

The two largest parliamentary parties are still in the government. Even after LAOS is gone (it has 16 MPs), and even after a few other defections (mostly from the PASOK), they need to loose another 80 MPs to fall. That's not the problem - the problem is, the whole discussion is entirely pointless.
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Politico
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 05:40:46 pm »
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The Greeks are in for hard times, but their government officials acted like accountants for Enron, so what did they expect would happen eventually? Furthermore, they will still be better off than most of Africa.

This whole tragedy is like the postponing of a death sentence on myriad occasions thus far. Just get it over with already.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 05:47:01 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 10:09:25 pm »
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Greek police union is talking like it isn't going to listen to orders to block strikes/protests.  this could get very fun very soon.
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A.G. Snowstalker
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 11:27:35 pm »
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Germany is the real villain here.
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Politico
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 01:13:23 am »
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Germany is the real villain here.

No, the real villains are the people in Greece's government who one-upped the Enron accountants in the realm of fraud. Germany and the rest of the EU trusted Greece, and Greece betrayed that trust.
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ag
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 12:11:03 pm »

There are no villains here. The closest, probably, are those who designed the euro the way it got designed - but they were not villainous, they just miscalculated. It's not time to be talking about whose fault it is. One should try to figure out how to get out of it w/ fewest losses and least suffering.
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2012, 08:24:49 pm »
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Germany is the real villain here.
I wouldn't say villain... but certainly shameless hypocrites.  I remember all those BBC articles 7-10 years ago when Germany laid the precedent for budget deficits that exceeded the cap allowed under the Euro agreement.

Of course they whined and moaned and used their weight to get what they wanted... like Germans will do like the best of us... and now they're on the other side and acting quite smug.

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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 06:26:06 am »
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Germany is the real villain here.
I wouldn't say villain... but certainly shameless hypocrites.  I remember all those BBC articles 7-10 years ago when Germany laid the precedent for budget deficits that exceeded the cap allowed under the Euro agreement.

Of course they whined and moaned and used their weight to get what they wanted... like Germans will do like the best of us... and now they're on the other side and acting quite smug.



What's missing from that story is that Germany is not on the other side by accident. They're there because they undertook painful reforms to restore competitiveness. Thus, while it's true that they broke the rules and refused the fines they did actually deal the issues in a responsible manner. So they some legitimacy in being smug.

And I agree with Ag, that the politicians who set up the euro against economic knowledge are to blame. And I'm not sure they miscalculated either. If you ask Prodi he seems to think this was a clever way of bringing about fiscal union. The cynicism of the European project has no limits for some people.
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 09:58:14 am »
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I'll miss Makis Voridis.
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2012, 02:01:42 pm »
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I'll miss Makis Voridis.

THE HAMMER
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 04:36:28 pm »
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This is why I am supporting Melenchon this year. The European 'left' has been a disaster and more neo-liberal than the neo-liberals.

They're being shown up by the likes of Karatzaferis (Orthodox Rally) and Victor Orban.

Yup, completely agree.
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2012, 07:13:20 pm »
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some footage from the class war:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-13/greece-votes-in-favour-of-austerity-plan/3826308
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2012, 07:19:18 pm »
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There are no villains here.

There is always a villain, and he's always easily identifiable - it is he who has the most.
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2012, 08:08:19 pm »
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This is why I am supporting Melenchon this year. The European 'left' has been a disaster and more neo-liberal than the neo-liberals.

this is only because elements of the right in Europe have to at least pay lip service to xenophobic/anti-European sentiment that is crucial to their base of popular support; meanwhile the bourgeois left has been entirely bought and sold and markets the prevailing version of firm-driven faux-internationalism without reserve.  if the right is right, it's for the wrong reasons -- of course, it is perfectly fine to support forces which are right for the wrong reasons (Saddam in 2003, the Iranian theocracy in 2009, Gaddafi in 2011, Ron Paul in 2012 among the notable examples).
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2012, 08:18:12 pm »
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Law enforcement needs to start responding to deadly force with deadlier force, or the whole nation is going to be up in flames before you know it.
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2012, 08:21:30 pm »
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Law enforcement needs to start responding to deadly force with deadlier force, or the whole nation is going to be up in flames before you know it.

kinda tough when the 'law enforcement' is getting its wages and pensions put on the chopping block too, they're bound to change sides:

Greek police union is talking like it isn't going to listen to orders to block strikes/protests.  this could get very fun very soon.

of course you can always turn to military dictatorship after that (and they may have to) but you run into major global PR problems if you go that route.
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2012, 09:46:43 pm »

There are no villains here.

There is always a villain, and he's always easily identifiable - it is he who has the most.

Your Lordship is too self-critical.
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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2012, 09:56:14 pm »
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I would like to point out that the reason why LAOS is generally called far-right is because of... well... they're fascists, you know?
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2012, 01:27:23 am »
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This is why I am supporting Melenchon this year. The European 'left' has been a disaster and more neo-liberal than the neo-liberals.

this is only because elements of the right in Europe have to at least pay lip service to xenophobic/anti-European sentiment that is crucial to their base of popular support; meanwhile the bourgeois left has been entirely bought and sold and markets the prevailing version of firm-driven faux-internationalism without reserve.  if the right is right, it's for the wrong reasons --

agreed.

Quote
of course, it is perfectly fine to support forces which are right for the wrong reasons (Saddam in 2003, the Iranian theocracy in 2009, Gaddafi in 2011, Ron Paul in 2012 among the notable examples).

All right in certain ways (except maybe Gaddafi), but not enough to actually support them. E.g., Saddam was right about not having WMD, but I wouldn't personally go so far as too actively root for the Iraqi military under Saddam against the US-led coalition. Just because LAOS is right about austerity, doesn't mean I support them to win elections.
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2012, 04:06:30 am »
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At this point, if I were in Greece, I would be voting KKE. They might be unreformed Stalinists, but the cult of Marx is better than that of Market.
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2012, 05:43:05 am »
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At this point, if I were in Greece, I would be voting KKE. They might be unreformed Stalinists, but the cult of Marx is better than that of Market.

That's wrong.
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