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| |-+  International Elections (Moderators: Comrade Sibboleth, PASOK Leader Hashemite)
| | |-+  Why are British left-wingers so enthusiastic about proportional representation?
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Author Topic: Why are British left-wingers so enthusiastic about proportional representation?  (Read 2030 times)
doktorb
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2012, 04:20:20 am »
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Because, in short, we are in a bubble of old fashioned, disproportionate, ill fitting democracy which needs dragging into the 20th century never mind the 21st.
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2012, 04:32:37 am »
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The method we use to count the votes probably needs to be reformed too.
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Comrade Sibboleth
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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2012, 04:55:26 am »

Because, in short, we are in a bubble of old fashioned, disproportionate, ill fitting democracy which needs dragging into the 20th century never mind the 21st.

You aren't left wing...
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2012, 05:12:41 am »

Of course, the patterns talked about (plus a small side pattern of England vs ROB) are very apparent here. Yeah, I know the referendum was on AV, not some (non-pure form of) PR. It affected the margin, but I fail to see a rational argument that it affected the pattern much.

Yes, that was the sort of thing I was half getting at. Electoral reform isn't really a left/right issue at that level.
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2012, 05:23:14 am »
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Of course, historically, there has been something of a correlation between PR and left-wing policy in the world. Of course, correlation does not imply causation with any necessity. 
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« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2012, 05:45:30 am »

Of course, historically, there has been something of a correlation between PR and left-wing policy in the world. Of course, correlation does not imply causation with any necessity. 

Sure, sure, but that's not what the question was about.
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2012, 04:56:42 pm »
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I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.
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« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2012, 04:59:12 pm »
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The method we use to count the votes probably needs to be reformed too.



First : bannishment of electronical voting (mother of all cheating)
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« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2012, 05:01:14 pm »
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The method we use to count the votes probably needs to be reformed too.



First : bannishment of electronical voting (mother of all cheating)

UK doesn't use electronic vote.
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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2012, 06:15:49 am »
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I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.
No. You would like to think so given how bad FPTP is, but worse systems are possible.
And exist. Including in Britain.

I present to you - multi-member fptp!
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I may conceivably reconsider.

Knowing me it's more likely than not.
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« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2012, 06:03:19 pm »
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I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.
No. You would like to think so given how bad FPTP is, but worse systems are possible.
And exist. Including in Britain.

I present to you - multi-member fptp!

Consolidated results Cardiff 2008
Party    Votes    Percent    Seats
Labour    26680    26.8%    13
Conservative    26395    26.5%    17
Liberal Democrat    24593    24.7%    35
Plaid Cymru - The Party of Wales    13297    13.4%    7
Independent    4992    5.0%    3
Green Party    2173    2.2%    0
Socialist Alternative    632    0.6%    0
UK Independence Party    398    0.4%    0
Communist Party of Britain    310    0.3%    0
Left List    91    0.1%    0

I've voted in a wrong-winner election myself, Bury 2004.
Conservative           26,315  37.0%  19 councillors
Labour                 24,884  35.0%  27 councillors
Liberal Democrat       15,457  21.7%   5 councillors
Independents            2,241   3.2%
British National Party  2,235   3.1%


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« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2012, 06:31:03 pm »
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I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV
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Хahar
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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2012, 03:32:35 pm »
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I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV

You mean that system you folk use for mayoral elections? That one's certainly worse than FPTP, yeah.
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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2012, 03:53:44 pm »
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I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV

You mean that system you folk use for mayoral elections? That one's certainly worse than FPTP, yeah.

And regional ones, too.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2012, 06:12:38 am »
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I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV

lolno
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.
YL
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« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2012, 12:08:11 pm »
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I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV

You mean that system you folk use for mayoral elections? That one's certainly worse than FPTP, yeah.

That's called "Supplementary Vote".  It works OK in London where everyone knows who the top two are going to be after the first round, but when that isn't obvious it gets silly.

I believe the Police Commissioner elections are going to use this system too.
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Comrade Sibboleth
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« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2012, 12:08:44 pm »

I believe the Police Commissioner elections are going to use this system too.

urgh
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2012, 02:47:46 pm »
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I believe the Police Commissioner elections are going to use this system too.

urgh

... at the elections or the system?  (Or both, which I'd entirely sympathise with?)
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Хahar
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« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2012, 02:58:49 pm »
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I believe the Police Commissioner elections are going to use this system too.

urgh

... at the elections or the system?  (Or both, which I'd entirely sympathise with?)

Both are entirely awful.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2012, 04:38:36 pm »
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Most Britons hate the EU. Duh.
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The Kingfish
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« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2012, 05:03:17 pm »
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Most Britons are actually quite apathetic about the EU.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2012, 05:08:37 pm »
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the turnout for euro elections is like, 10% though, which is why its ridiculous to use them as an example of what general elections would be like
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