Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 31, 2014, 10:05:43 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  International Elections (Moderator: Hashemite)
| | |-+  Why are British left-wingers so enthusiastic about proportional representation?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Print
Author Topic: Why are British left-wingers so enthusiastic about proportional representation?  (Read 2167 times)
doktorb
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1001
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2012, 04:20:20 am »
Ignore

Because, in short, we are in a bubble of old fashioned, disproportionate, ill fitting democracy which needs dragging into the 20th century never mind the 21st.
Logged

My blog - http://www.liampennington.blogspot.com

Twitter - @doktorb
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8272
United States


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2012, 04:32:37 am »
Ignore

The method we use to count the votes probably needs to be reformed too.
Logged
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56869
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2012, 04:55:26 am »
Ignore

Because, in short, we are in a bubble of old fashioned, disproportionate, ill fitting democracy which needs dragging into the 20th century never mind the 21st.

You aren't left wing...
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56869
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2012, 05:12:41 am »
Ignore

Of course, the patterns talked about (plus a small side pattern of England vs ROB) are very apparent here. Yeah, I know the referendum was on AV, not some (non-pure form of) PR. It affected the margin, but I fail to see a rational argument that it affected the pattern much.

Yes, that was the sort of thing I was half getting at. Electoral reform isn't really a left/right issue at that level.
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26922


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2012, 05:23:14 am »
Ignore

Of course, historically, there has been something of a correlation between PR and left-wing policy in the world. Of course, correlation does not imply causation with any necessity. 
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56869
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2012, 05:45:30 am »
Ignore

Of course, historically, there has been something of a correlation between PR and left-wing policy in the world. Of course, correlation does not imply causation with any necessity. 

Sure, sure, but that's not what the question was about.
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
Colbert
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 375
France


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2012, 04:56:42 pm »
Ignore




I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.
Logged
Colbert
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 375
France


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2012, 04:59:12 pm »
Ignore

The method we use to count the votes probably needs to be reformed too.



First : bannishment of electronical voting (mother of all cheating)
Logged
MaxQue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8933
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2012, 05:01:14 pm »
Ignore

The method we use to count the votes probably needs to be reformed too.



First : bannishment of electronical voting (mother of all cheating)

UK doesn't use electronic vote.
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2012, 06:15:49 am »
Ignore




I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.
No. You would like to think so given how bad FPTP is, but worse systems are possible.
And exist. Including in Britain.

I present to you - multi-member fptp!
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Chancellor of the Duchy of Little Lever and Darcy Lever
andrewteale
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 584
Romania


View Profile WWW
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2012, 06:03:19 pm »
Ignore




I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.
No. You would like to think so given how bad FPTP is, but worse systems are possible.
And exist. Including in Britain.

I present to you - multi-member fptp!

Consolidated results Cardiff 2008
Party    Votes    Percent    Seats
Labour    26680    26.8%    13
Conservative    26395    26.5%    17
Liberal Democrat    24593    24.7%    35
Plaid Cymru - The Party of Wales    13297    13.4%    7
Independent    4992    5.0%    3
Green Party    2173    2.2%    0
Socialist Alternative    632    0.6%    0
UK Independence Party    398    0.4%    0
Communist Party of Britain    310    0.3%    0
Left List    91    0.1%    0

I've voted in a wrong-winner election myself, Bury 2004.
Conservative           26,315  37.0%  19 councillors
Labour                 24,884  35.0%  27 councillors
Liberal Democrat       15,457  21.7%   5 councillors
Independents            2,241   3.2%
British National Party  2,235   3.1%


Logged

http://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap - UK local election results since 2002.



There cannot have been a by-election here, as I didn't see an Andrew Teale writeup on it. Or else that by-election's validity should be challenged on the grounds that it was held without Andrew's written approval
You kip if you want to...
change08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8743
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2012, 06:31:03 pm »
Ignore




I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV
Logged

Хahar
Xahar
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 38877
Bangladesh


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2012, 03:32:35 pm »
Ignore




I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV

You mean that system you folk use for mayoral elections? That one's certainly worse than FPTP, yeah.
Logged

Update reading list

The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
MaxQue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8933
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2012, 03:53:44 pm »
Ignore




I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV

You mean that system you folk use for mayoral elections? That one's certainly worse than FPTP, yeah.

And regional ones, too.
Logged
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31252
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2012, 06:12:38 am »
Ignore




I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV

lolno
Logged

Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
YL
YorkshireLiberal
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1259
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2012, 12:08:11 pm »
Ignore




I don't think only leftwingers are pro-prop.


Simply, FPTP is a prehistoric system, the most unfair, the less exciting (for hardcore election-night fans^^) and... and simply the worst system in the whole universe.

AV

You mean that system you folk use for mayoral elections? That one's certainly worse than FPTP, yeah.

That's called "Supplementary Vote".  It works OK in London where everyone knows who the top two are going to be after the first round, but when that isn't obvious it gets silly.

I believe the Police Commissioner elections are going to use this system too.
Logged

Not a fan of UKIP, to put it mildly
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56869
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2012, 12:08:44 pm »
Ignore

I believe the Police Commissioner elections are going to use this system too.

urgh
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
YL
YorkshireLiberal
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1259
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2012, 02:47:46 pm »
Ignore

I believe the Police Commissioner elections are going to use this system too.

urgh

... at the elections or the system?  (Or both, which I'd entirely sympathise with?)
Logged

Not a fan of UKIP, to put it mildly
Хahar
Xahar
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 38877
Bangladesh


View Profile
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2012, 02:58:49 pm »
Ignore

I believe the Police Commissioner elections are going to use this system too.

urgh

... at the elections or the system?  (Or both, which I'd entirely sympathise with?)

Both are entirely awful.
Logged

Update reading list

The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11974
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2012, 04:38:36 pm »
Ignore


Most Britons hate the EU. Duh.
Logged

Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8272
United States


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2012, 05:03:17 pm »
Ignore


Most Britons are actually quite apathetic about the EU.
Logged
k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11974
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


View Profile
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2012, 05:08:37 pm »
Ignore


the turnout for euro elections is like, 10% though, which is why its ridiculous to use them as an example of what general elections would be like
Logged

Pages: 1 [2] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines