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Author Topic: How have your political views changed over time?  (Read 2425 times)
Jacobtm
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2012, 07:19:16 pm »
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I was a pretty libertarian guy until the crash of '07/'08

I had a bunch of friends who were, I thought, on the same page as me. Guys who invested in the stock market and were all about free markets, small gov't, etc.

Then they started going on and on about how the bailouts were needed. How we had to give trillions upon trillions of dollars to the people who had just failed.

That's when I saw that the ''free market'' rhetoric was all B.S. These people who blab on about it aren't interested in liberty or the free market, they're just interested in lining their pockets. They're more than happy with robbing the taxpayer blind to do so.

Greed, aka the profit motive, is the engine that drives capitalism. It's also the engine that drives these same capitalists to seek corrupting influence over our government.

I still believe in the free market. No reason we shouldn't let private enterprise basically run the economy. But I see a much bigger need for government to break up ''too big to fail'' companies and STRONGLY enforce anti-corruption laws, insider trading laws, and all sorts of things like that. If you read the history of the financial crash, it is full of crimes for which no one has been punished.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 07:23:47 pm by Jacobtm »Logged

Why do so many people here cheer on war crimes?
Israel and the United States "killing dozens of civilians with explosives", as you phrase it, has, throughout history, almost always been a good thing.
bgwah
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2012, 10:42:27 pm »
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Since joining the forum, I would say I've moved a smidgen to the left on economic issues, and was more of a left-libertarian in the past. Perhaps most notably, I support universal healthcare now. I haven't really changed that much, though. I think my PM score has moved quite a bit, but then again changing my answer on museums hardly represents a real political change IMO. I've always been perplexed by the frequent (and rapid!) changes some folks on this forum have.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 10:44:53 pm by bgwah »Logged

anvi
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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2012, 02:30:04 am »
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For over thirty years, I found politics really fascinating and important.

Now, I'm beginning to completely loathe politics, and find it more and more useless every day.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2012, 05:14:58 am »
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My outlook and basic analysis has shifted considerably to the left in many ways. But, aha, the direct result has actually been something of a rightwards shift in certain specific practical terms. There's a certain twisted logic of sorts there.

Care to give an example or two? Sounds like an interesting mechanism...
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Less-Progressivism, More Realism
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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2012, 10:01:37 am »
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Not really, I think they just clarified with time. I was a vague leftie populist back when I was a kid, and once I grew up I realized things were a bit more complicated than I thought and moderated somewhat. My positions on a few issues have changed, but my core values remain the same.

Pretty much this.
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Ready 4 Reform.
Night Man
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« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2012, 11:08:02 am »
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For over thirty years, I found politics really fascinating and important.

Now, I'm beginning to completely loathe politics, and find it more and more useless every day.

This.

Anyways, I guess when I was first becoming politically aware, I had an interesting mix of views-

I guess I was the populist/moderate version of Newt Gingrich. Fairly conservative and hawkish but for wanting the super-rich to spread more of their wealth and for the deregulation of nuclear power and human cloning expirements.  

Then, I became more left wing as I learned that the Religious Right were total dicks, it was OK to be gay and that there were too many "special interests" on the right. Eventually, I came to the ephiphany that with the war on terror and the decline of popularity of traditional liberalism, that there was pretty much no hope for economic populism and that progressive efforts were best spent on defending civil rights and liberties and that perhaps through fewer societal barriers, many more people would be "absorbed" into the free market.

Eventually, I learned that far too many people on the top had no real interest in moving over and letting others on to the feed trough. A couple of years later, we ran out of money. At this point, I guess I am what you would consider an Anti-Left Liberal.

I'm pro-choice, anti-super rich, anti-SOPA/PIPA, anti-PATRIOT act, pro-PublicOption, anti-deathpenalty and pro-gay but despise absexual feminism, Eminent Domain, Hate Speech Legislation, gun control, nuclear power regulation, think social security is open for discussion and initially supported Iraq and still think Libya was the right thing to do. I was very gung-ho on Afghanistan and now I don't care.  
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Ghost_white
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« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2012, 11:27:58 am »
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Probably easier to list what I haven't changed my mind on. I always strongly opposed amnesty, multiculturalism, relativism, affirmative action, gun bans, and sexual prudery (or at least, thought that people should have a choice to have sex or look at porn or whatever even when I was religious). Of course, I've trended hard to "the right" (alert the SPLC!) since the bail outs and the current joke President assumed office.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 11:30:32 am by cigarettes on the beach, malt liquor on the golf course »Logged


That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2012, 03:56:18 pm »
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For the greater part, I'm as constant as the Sun; however, two events have had rather profound impact. Firstly, 9/11, saw me shift stridently to the right on national security and, secondly, the 'Crash of 2008', saw me move leftwards on economics and become more critical of neoliberalism
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General White
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« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2012, 05:26:13 pm »
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I started out as a Fiscal Liberal Social Conservative Pro-Death Penalty Pro-Life then moved towards a Democratic Socialist/Social Democratic economic point of view & Moderate to liberal view on Social issues & have always been a Democrat.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2012, 05:43:30 pm »
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Since joining the forum, I would say I've moved a smidgen to the left on economic issues, and was more of a left-libertarian in the past. Perhaps most notably, I support universal healthcare now. I haven't really changed that much, though. I think my PM score has moved quite a bit, but then again changing my answer on museums hardly represents a real political change IMO. I've always been perplexed by the frequent (and rapid!) changes some folks on this forum have.

This also applies to me perfectly, albeit these changes were a couple years or so before I joined the forum.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2012, 07:03:46 pm »
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My views have been consistent for many many years now, and my only major changes have been drifting slightly leftward on most issues whenever I become more informed on them. Things like the minimum wage, gun control laws, or environmental safety, that I was formerly ambivalent on, I became more informed on and drifted leftward. But these things are not any sort of major change. I viewed myself as a Social Democrat several years ago, and I view myself as more of an out-and-out Socialist now. Though, that's not a very big leap.

My biggest changes have mainly just been my approach to issues and how much I know about them. There's been no seismic shifts. I've also become much less tolerant of libertarian absolutes on social issues, and I suppose I've become a smidge more authoritarian in general.

I've also changed a lot in how I view democracy and our system of government, but such things don't impact my overall philosophy. In short, I haven't changed much.

I've always been perplexed by the frequent (and rapid!) changes some folks on this forum have.

As have I!
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oakvale
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« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2012, 08:43:05 pm »
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I haven't really changed my views so much as I've developed clearer, more defined opinions. I've always been somewhat left of centre.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2012, 09:39:00 pm »
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Probably easier to list what I haven't changed my mind on. I always strongly opposed amnesty, multiculturalism, relativism, affirmative action, gun bans, and sexual prudery (or at least, thought that people should have a choice to have sex or look at porn or whatever even when I was religious). Of course, I've trended hard to "the right" (alert the SPLC!) since the bail outs and the current joke President assumed office.

Quasi-fascism is pretty fun, huh?
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Night Man
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« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2012, 12:15:19 am »
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Probably easier to list what I haven't changed my mind on. I always strongly opposed amnesty, multiculturalism, relativism, affirmative action, gun bans, and sexual prudery (or at least, thought that people should have a choice to have sex or look at porn or whatever even when I was religious). Of course, I've trended hard to "the right" (alert the SPLC!) since the bail outs and the current joke President assumed office.

Quasi-fascism is pretty fun, huh?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcXRlWotPTk
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Polsci
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« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2012, 01:50:26 am »
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I used to a radical Communist, and then a committed right-wing Nationalist and then a far left Democrat and then a far right Republican and now I look back and laugh at it all as a moderate with no true party to call home.  I'm only Democrat because they allow moderates in their party still.
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I am an American first.  Ideology always comes after serving the citizenry.  Ours is a country by the people, for the people, and of the people.
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Ghost_white
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« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2012, 10:40:41 am »
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Probably easier to list what I haven't changed my mind on. I always strongly opposed amnesty, multiculturalism, relativism, affirmative action, gun bans, and sexual prudery (or at least, thought that people should have a choice to have sex or look at porn or whatever even when I was religious). Of course, I've trended hard to "the right" (alert the SPLC!) since the bail outs and the current joke President assumed office.

Quasi-fascism is pretty fun, huh?

Ah so you're calling Mr. Dees then?
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
Niemeyerite
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« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2012, 04:38:55 pm »
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Socialism > Socialdemocracy > Becoming a socialist again
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My evolution (by The Political Matrix):
E: -6.06 -> -6.97 -> -6.97 -> -8.13 -> -7.29 -> -8.26 -> -8.65 -> -7.03
S: -6.78 -> -6.09 -> -7.30 -> -7.13 -> -8.09 -> -8.35 -> -9.04 -> -8.61
Carlos Danger
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« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2012, 07:08:40 pm »
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I've pretty consistently become more libertarian over time, and increasingly disillusioned with mainstream politicians.
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Lt. Governor TJ
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« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2012, 09:44:43 pm »
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I've drifted somewhat upward and to the left on the PM over the years after beginning as a pretty generic conservative. The main factors that have influenced my drifting were my Mom going on strike when I was in high school and a re-evaluation of my beliefs and worldview that took place my sophomore year of college. The only two major issues I've changed my mind on have been the death penalty and legalized gambling. I was a huge supporter of legalized gambling when I was younger, but later came to realize that legalizing it causes more harm in terms of broken families than good it does in development. Ironically, the two things that convinced me it was a bad idea was a friend I respect a lot that wanted it legal and a newspaper editorial in favor of it.

My view of the death penalty changed much more slowly. It was always an issue that perplexed me because the Church teaches against it and used to practice it so I dismissed the teachings against it as going soft and conforming to the post-modern values of the age. I was confronted on this a couple times and sort of threw my hands into the air and called myself "neutral" for a while on the issue. But the eventual "winner" position was that the death penalty is accpetable only when it is necessary to protect others from harm rather than an instrument of punishment, which ironed out the contradiction in my thinking as well as it could be. I also had an argument with another friend over abortion in the case of rape where I asked him if it would be okay for the woman to kill the rapist out of revenge and he told me it would be fine and is called capital punishment. That unnerved me to where I began to see capital punishment is less about public safety and more about revenge. I slowly came to realize that my belief that capital punishment is okay only when necessary for public safety meant never as it's done in sentencing in the US.
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« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2012, 10:33:10 am »
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To best examine how my views have changed, you should look at candidates I've supported in the past:

2008 Democratic primaries: Hillary Clinton
2008 general election: John McCain/Sarah Palin
2012 Republican primaries (before people actually started campaigning): Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, Gary Johnson, Ron Paul, Mike Pence, Mitch Daniels
2012 Republican primaries (after people actually started campaigning): Herman Cain, Buddy Roemer, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, and currently Buddy Roemer again
2012 Libertarian primaries: Gary Johnson
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 10:31:52 am by I ♥ Maggots »Logged

lawlz
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« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2012, 12:39:27 pm »
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Mine have stayed fairly consistent since I started becoming involved with politics.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2012, 08:55:57 pm »
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Probably easier to list what I haven't changed my mind on. I always strongly opposed amnesty, multiculturalism, relativism, affirmative action, gun bans, and sexual prudery (or at least, thought that people should have a choice to have sex or look at porn or whatever even when I was religious). Of course, I've trended hard to "the right" (alert the SPLC!) since the bail outs and the current joke President assumed office.

Quasi-fascism is pretty fun, huh?

Ah so you're calling Mr. Dees then?

What is objectionable about "multiculturalism" and some sort of path to citizenship?
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« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2012, 09:13:12 pm »
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I used to be pretty much a lock-and-step republican. My views weren't very developed. I was extremely socially far-right, and fiscally moderate (w/ a slight republican tilt).

3 years later, 2012, I'm much more conservative on economics, and more states' rights. I started to see the hypocrisies of both parties, and used it to better my views. Still very socially conservative but not on flag burning or the FCC anymore.
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Ghost_white
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« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2012, 10:05:52 pm »
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Probably easier to list what I haven't changed my mind on. I always strongly opposed amnesty, multiculturalism, relativism, affirmative action, gun bans, and sexual prudery (or at least, thought that people should have a choice to have sex or look at porn or whatever even when I was religious). Of course, I've trended hard to "the right" (alert the SPLC!) since the bail outs and the current joke President assumed office.

Quasi-fascism is pretty fun, huh?

Ah so you're calling Mr. Dees then?

What is objectionable about "multiculturalism"

Several reasons:

1. High levels of diversity - religious, racial, whatever - tend to erode social trust (see Robert Putnam's work on this). Although even before I read that it was pretty self evident to me just looking at the real world: look how Scandinavian nations or Japan function. Then look at the attitudes of more diverse areas. People unfortunately tend to only trust "their own kind," particularly in anglo-saxon societies. It's not an insurmountable problem, there are some societies like Singapore for example that are highly diverse yet have high levels of trust in institutions and efficiency. But those tend to not be liberal democracies and they seem to be the minority. I just don't have a very rosy view of human nature in general. Again, one of the reasons I've never really identifies as a liberal or "progressive" or whatever.

2. Not every (sub)culture is compatible with one another or wants to co-exist. I don't mean that in a veiled anti-muslim way either, or at least I'm not singling out muslims when there are plenty of Christians that want to criminalize who I am or worse for example... Having a functioning society means that there has to be some degree of assimilation, conformity, what have you. I think we've failed at that.

3. Let me put it this way: Today people are generally horrified by the IMMENSE pressure we put on southern and eastern Europeans to basically become as much as possible like the WASP majority. We made them drop their names, customs, food, religion, etc. But how successfully do you think Italians, Greeks, Poles, Russians, etc. would have assimilated into society if we had more modern policies in place? Like bilingual education, ballots, housing forms, mandated recognition of their customs/holidays, government recognition of them as separate ethnicities, etc..? They wouldn't have assimilated as fast if ever. Doubtful they'd be perceived as white eventually either. And obviously a lot of people in those groups are as dark if not darker looking than "hispanics."
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:28:07 pm by cigarettes on the beach, malt liquor on the golf course »Logged


That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
Carlos Danger
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« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2012, 10:33:36 pm »
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3. Let me put it this way: Today people are generally horrified by the IMMENSE pressure we put on southern and eastern Europeans to basically become as much as possible like the WASP majority. We made them drop their names, customs, food, religion, etc. But how successfully do you think Italians, Greeks, Poles, Russians, etc. would have assimilated into society if we had more modern policies in place? Like bilingual education, ballots, housing forms, mandated recognition of their customs/holidays, government recognition of them as separate ethnicities, etc..? They wouldn't have assimilated as fast if ever. Doubtful they'd be perceived as white eventually either. And obviously a lot of people in those groups are as dark if not darker looking than "hispanics"...

I would note that the Scots-Irish and Irish-Irish faced the same sort of treatment from WASPs (hell, it's still considered acceptable in 'polite' society, such as this site, to talk about the stupid lazy ignorant redneck hillbillies in the former case).  This despite their coming from variations on the same culture as WASPs, and looking pretty much the same too.  The fear and hatred of the 'other' is deeply ingrained and oftentimes highly irrational even by the standards of bigotry.
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