Department of Federal Elections: Homelycooking, SoFE

[sentinel]

We need secret ballot elections. I hate how in every election people are trying to strategically alter votes in some way.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

My party's tactical voting for Deus at the end was a cheap and sick move that violates the spirit of the game and I am reconsidering my future in Labor over it.

[Simfan34]

We need secret ballot elections. I hate how in every election people are trying to strategically alter votes in some way.

This is what I was thinking.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

We need secret ballot elections. I hate how in every election people are trying to strategically alter votes in some way.

How can that be accomplished, though?  If the ballots are completely secret, there's no way to ensure that they're being counted fairly and accurately.

[Talleyrand]

We need secret ballot elections. I hate how in every election people are trying to strategically alter votes in some way.

How can that be accomplished, though?  If the ballots are completely secret, there's no way to ensure that they're being counted fairly and accurately.

^^^

Secret ballot voting sounds great in theory, but there are far too many potential issues with such a practice in a game like Atlasia to make it a reality.

These elections are as open and fair as I think we can realistically get in this game, while still keeping it enjoyable.

[Adam Griffin]

FTR, I've advocated secret ballots multiple times over the years, but no one seems to want them except when they're on the losing end of an election. It'll never happen because of that, unfortunately.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

so Alfred did win. Okay.

No Alfred did not. Deus is the winner

[sentinel]

We need secret ballot elections. I hate how in every election people are trying to strategically alter votes in some way.

How can that be accomplished, though?  If the ballots are completely secret, there's no way to ensure that they're being counted fairly and accurately.

^^^

Secret ballot voting sounds great in theory, but there are far too many potential issues with such a practice in a game like Atlasia to make it a reality.

These elections are as open and fair as I think we can realistically get in this game, while still keeping it enjoyable.

I think we should at least discuss it. One idea I just had was two-step validation when you cast your vote. An example would be have people vote on a Google Poll then messaging the SOFE (and another indicated person) to validate your vote.

I'm sure there are other ideas on how to accomplish this as well.

[Simfan34]

so Alfred did win. Okay.

No Alfred did not. Deus is the winner

Why do you keep on saying this? Cincinnatus preferenced Alfred, not Deus, so Al wins.

[windjammer]

1st round:
Alfred Jones (40 votes): Bore, Cranby,Sjoyce, Yeahsayy, Hatman, Flo, Cynic, Icehand, Alfred, Talleyrand, AdamG, Oak Hills, Adam F, Sirnick, hawkeye, Arturo, Badger, Ogre, DemPGH, Zanas, SWE, Njall, Sol, ilikeverin, Ebowed, Sir John, Malaspin, reject, TDAS, Bacon King, BaconBacon, Marokai, Antonio, Morgieb, Sibooleth, Maxque, Peter, TNF, Badgate, Gass.

Deus (38 votes): Spiral,  Maxwell, Goldwater, Jbrase, Deus, Chairmansanchez, Small L, Kreitzer, Cathcon, Cris, Torie,  EG, Jack End, Roguebeaver, cinyc, rooney, shua, Pit, JCL, Napoleon, Dallasfan,  Mechaman, Pasol, asex, PR, bgwah, xahar, windjammer, Tyrion,  Velasco, Snowguy, Brewer, Poirot, Peeper, Sbane, Deadman.

Simfan (37 votes): Hagrid, tmthforu, Cassius, Riley Keaton, Winfield, Pingvin99, DC,  TJ, Master Jedi, Iinks, Oldies, pessimistic, Dereich, Miles, Grant, Zuwo, Yankee, Fritz,  Grumps, Homely, Ben, Matt, Superique, Lumine, oakvale, Polnut, Scott, butafly, hifly, Duke, Cinci, Averroes, Franzl, Simfan, Devin, Reaganfan, Keystone Phil.

2 votes invalid: Madman, Snowstalker


2nd round:
Alfred Jones (56 votes): Bore, Cranby,Sjoyce, Yeahsayy, Hatman, Flo, Cynic, Icehand, Alfred, Talleyrand, AdamG, Oak Hills, Adam F, Sirnick, hawkeye, Arturo, Badger, Ogre, DemPGH, Zanas, SWE, Njall, Sol, ilikeverin, Ebowed, Sir John, Malaspin, reject, TDAS, Bacon King, BaconBacon, Marokai, Antonio, Morgieb, Sibooleth, Maxque, Peter, TNF, Badgate, Gass, Fritz,  Grumps, Homely, Ben, Matt, Superique, Lumine, oakvale, Polnut, Scott, butafly, hifly, Duke, Cinci, Averroes, Franzl

Deus (55 votes): Spiral,  Maxwell, Goldwater, Jbrase, Deus, Chairmansanchez, Small L, Kreitzer, Cathcon, Cris, Torie,  EG, Jack End, Roguebeaver, cinyc, rooney, shua, Pit, JCL, Napoleon, Dallasfan,  Mechaman, Pasol, asex, PR, bgwah, xahar, windjammer, Tyrion,  Velasco, Snowguy, Brewer, Poirot, Peeper, Sbane, Deadman,  Hagrid, tmthforu, Cassius, Riley Keaton, Winfield, Pingvin99, DC,  TJ, Master Jedi, Iinks, Oldies, pessimistic, Dereich, Miles, Grant, Zuwo, Yankee

4 votes exhausted: Simfan, Devin, Reaganfan, Keystone Pphil
2 votes invalid: Snowstakler, Madman.

You can verify if you want.

For JCL.

-------------------------
Seriously, I understand that some people want to instaurate secret ballots. But we'll have problems with that too!

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

We need secret ballot elections. I hate how in every election people are trying to strategically alter votes in some way.

How can that be accomplished, though?  If the ballots are completely secret, there's no way to ensure that they're being counted fairly and accurately.

^^^

Secret ballot voting sounds great in theory, but there are far too many potential issues with such a practice in a game like Atlasia to make it a reality.

These elections are as open and fair as I think we can realistically get in this game, while still keeping it enjoyable.

I think we should at least discuss it. One idea I just had was two-step validation when you cast your vote. An example would be have people vote on a Google Poll then messaging the SOFE (and another indicated person) to validate your vote.

I'm sure there are other ideas on how to accomplish this as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a secret ballot process.  I just don't think it's tenable.

How would this validation process work, exactly?  I've never used Google Polls before.

[Maxwell]

god there is a Google everything #oldpeoplethoughts

[HagridOfTheDeep]

There would need to be a system where the SoFE and Deputy SoEA give every voter a unique password to a secure voting site. I don't think it's good to just PM the votes to the SoEA.

It would be a lot of work, and I'm not even sure if such a system exists. We'd also have to run numerous trials to make sure the process is secure. I think it's a worthwhile pursuit.

The pettiness in this game isn't helped by the fact that you can see who everyone votes for and know how the election is going before the votes are counted. In a perfect world, our voting system would be a lot different. If there's a way to improve things, we should look into it.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

My party's tactical voting for Deus at the end was a cheap and sick move that violates the spirit of the game and I am reconsidering my future in Labor over it.

You speak as if it's unbeknownst to you, when rather 'tis the spirit of the game that showers down on us these strategies like Kevin Spacey and his House of Cards. We Laborites have done this for millennia and yet 'tis only now that you speak up? Somewhere, somehow in here I smell a rat.

[Adam Griffin]

I remember mentioning it before somewhere, but there's a way to create a system that allows people to vote publicly without their votes being deciphered by the public, but it'd be a hell of a lot of work for the DoFE.

First, you'd need the DoFE and another independent entity (perhaps the mod of the board, but seeing as how he doesn't proactively involve himself in the game, it might be difficult to get him to do it) to be aware of an algorithm, equation or variable of sorts for each election. This would change with each election, but let's use an example below to explain:

Candidate A has an identifier of "17"
Candidate B has an identifier of "27"
Candidate C has an identifier of "34"

These identifier would only be known by the DoFE & independent agent. The DoFE would then be responsible for generating and sending via PM a unique ballot to every registered voter. It'd probably be best to send two messages to each person (separating the names of the candidates from the actual ballot, but explaining how they correlate), because inevitably a zombie would quote the entire ballot and give away the formulas that would allow for reverse-engineering of the coded votes.

So, here's a sample ballot:

Candidate A:
[  ] 3185 (3+1+8+5=17)

Candidate B:
[  ] 6984 (6+9+8+4=27)

Candidate C:
[  ] 9898 (9+8+9+8=34)

So you'd just use a random string of numbers for each candidate that all add up to that same number assigned to the candidate. From here, each ballot could be cast publicly but not able to be determined by other users. This is a very simple example, and could actually be decoded by referencing how certain people voted (i.e.: the ones that add up to a certain number are for a certain candidate). It'd still make it a lot more difficult for people to count votes, though (including the DoFE ).

You could create a more complex formula that uses division, multiplication and the like to make it virtually impossible for anyone except the DoFE and independent agent to decipher, but that again is much more work for the DoFE.

It's most likely an unworkable idea given the amount of effort that would have to go into each election, but maybe it'll get people thinking about it.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yeah, that would be very problematic to carry out.  Don't forget that you can only send so many PMs at a time, as well, so you'd have to start days - possibly weeks - ahead of the election, unless you get an entire team of folks to send the PMs.  But then that would defeat the purpose and the whole system would just be unworkable.

Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with what we got.  If I'm proven wrong someday, then great.

[sentinel]

Adam's idea would work but like everyone has said, its incredibly trying and complicated.

A Google Poll would work like this.

SOFE sets up an election ballot on the poll. In the poll there is a line for "username"

After "username" votes, "username" sends a PM to the SOFE & another person saying "I voted."

Bada bing bada boom. Only people who complete both steps get counted.

Can also do this with a code from the SOFE, but that takes a lot more messaging.

[windjammer]

That's a lot of work to make the game substantially more boring.

Strategic voting happens, people get outraged when you don't vote as they want you to, and anyone can sabotage an election by spoiling his or her ballot. Sometimes that bothers me, but I prefer a system that allows people to test its boundaries to one in which nothing interesting or unexpected is permitted.

Globally what Averroës has said!

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I don't think it's accurate to say that fairer elections would not be interesting; we've never had one. Imagine you've got the leaders of a party thinking they've got control of their members only to see the final results of an election and be blown away. There's less incentive to follow the party line which means parties actually need to work to make people feel included and well-represented. Plus, ensuing witch hunts could be hilarious.

[Cincinnatus]

I don't think it's accurate to say that fairer elections would not be interesting; we've never had one. Imagine you've got the leaders of a party thinking they've got control of their members only to see the final results of an election and be blown away. There's less incentive to follow the party line which means parties actually need to work to make people feel included and well-represented. Plus, ensuing witch hunts could be hilarious.

...
...

Did you miss Zell Miller?  This secret ballot is a horrible idea.  Elections here are supposed to be about GOTV PM's last minute, and counting the votes.  Do you realize how boring this game would be without the pettiness?  You need controversial figures to rally around, and to oppose.  Otherwise this game becomes like the rest of the forum; misguided policy from people with absolutely no clue how the real world works.

This is an elections game, so why would a secret ballot make this game interesting at all?  This is not real life, we can't call states for a candidate with any real insight.  This would basically eliminate any interest regarding elections, IMO.  The system is not broken, strategic voting is an important aspect in Atlasia, irregardless of personal opinion.  "We've never had one" is not a sufficient argument to warrant a complete overhaul of our elections.  Parties are still surprised when certain voters vote unexpectedly, which has happened several times recently.  This is a pretty weak argument I think, and I'm genuinely surprised that certain people support this idea.

  

[Napoleon]

...
...

Did you miss Zell Miller? 

I'm going to go ahead and confirm that you're 100% spot on with the rest of your post. However- the Zell Miller comment wasn't a party leader, just a member and honestly we already have a crazy right wing Democrat challenging people to duels, so Nix isn't even eligible to be Zell Miller.

[Torie]

Folks could vote by PM'ing their ballot choices to someone trustworthy, who then re-posts everything after the voting booths close. Perhaps that someone should vote first, so that someone does not have inside information when voting himself.

[Adam Griffin]

Will the ballot be ready for viewing today?

[homelycooking]

REPUBLIC OF ATLASIA - In Dave We Trust
Sample Ballot

This special election is held in accordance with Article V of the Constitution and with the Consolidated Electoral System Reform Act. The regular election begins at 0:00 EDT, Friday, April 18, and ends at 0:00 EDT, Monday, April 21.

DO NOT EDIT OR DELETE THE POST CONTAINING YOUR BALLOT IN ANY WAY AFTER 20 MINUTES OF ITS BEING POSTED OR YOUR VOTE WILL BE INVALIDATED

The act of campaigning within the election booth is strictly forbidden and will render void any votes made by those who campaign. The act of campaigning is considered to include, but is not limited to, strong attempts to compel others either to vote or not to vote for one or multiple candidates, or other related activities that could reasonably be construed as a direct attempt to influence how future voters cast their ballots. In other words, this is not a discussion thread. In short, the department will be taking a liberal interpreation of this, so Keep posts to votes only.

Place the numbers 1, 2, etc. in the space provided beside the candidates who you wish to vote for to designate your order of preference for these candidates.  If any other mark or attempt to order the candidates is made, the Department of Forum Affairs will make every effort to deduce voter intent from the content of the ballot, but the warning must be issued that failure to follow the above instructions may result in the invalidation of your ballot in the event of an inability to discern voter intent.  You are an eligible voter in general if you were registered to vote on or before the proper date, and if you made 10 posts in any location within the Atlas Forum in the 8 weeks prior to the commencement of the regular election. In other words, if your name appears on the Census list, you can presume you are eligible.  

In the event that you do not support any listed candidate or that you support one or many candidates that are not listed in addition to those that are, you may write in other candidates and include them in your list of preferences.  Space is provided for one such write-in, but as many can be listed as you wish.  In the event that you do not support any listed candidate, and do not wish to write in any candidate, you may place an X or a 1 beside "None of the above", and only beside "None of the above".  In the event that an X or a 1 appears beside "None of the above" on a ballot, all other marks or numbers will be ignored.  It is not permissible under current election law to vote for both "None of the above" and other candidates.

Note that voting begins at midnight and ends in exactly 72 hours.

Names of candidates follow in alphabetical order.

AT-LARGE SENATE

[  ] Adam Griffin of New Brunswick
^{Labor Party}

[  ] Alfred F. Jones of Rhode Island
^{Labor Party}

[  ] a Person of Maine
^{The People's Party}

[  ] Goldwater (Republitarian) of Delaware
^{Federalist Party}

[  ] JCL (Johanus Calvinus Libertas) of Indiana
^{Federalist Party}

[  ] Lumine von Reuental of Montana
^{The People's Party}

[  ] shua of Nunavut
^{Democratic-Republican Party}

[  ] Write-in:______________________________
^{-__________________}

[  ] None of the above

[homelycooking]

OFFICIAL RESULTS

AT-LARGE SENATE




ADAM GRIFFIN is elected At-Large Senator.
ALFRED F. JONES is elected At-Large Senator.
GOLDWATER is elected At-Large Senator.
LUMINE is elected At-Large Senator.
SHUA is elected At-Large Senator.

There was a total turnout of 111 votes, with 1 ballot paper being rejected.

I, Homelycooking, Secretary of Federal Elections, declare the above results to be a complete and accurate summary of the votes cast.