Pennsylvania judge upholds voter-ID law

[Sbane]

What the Democrats need to do is raise awareness and help people who need to get ID's. Like I said in the other thread, if it impacts elections, it will be only for a cycle or two. The motivations behind these laws is what I am more interested about. What problem was the legislature trying to solve or prevent? Cite?

Presumably preventing ineligible people from voting, or people voting more than once, or voting for someone else?

And how much evidence of that is there? And then you listen to the reasons given by Republican politicians for why the laws were passed, and it's quite clear what the motivation was. Partisan gain. This is something I expect out of the Communist Party of India(Marxist), not a major political party in America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/10/670441/ohio-limits-early-voting-hours-in-democratic-counties-expands-in-republican-counties/?mobile=nc

Oh yeah, in Ohio I do believe the SOS has decided that he won't suppress the vote that much and will allow all counties the same voting hours. What a great guy!

[Marokai Backbeat]

It is literally impossible to argue these are genuine laws being crafted in good faith to combat an actual problem, not only because of the utter lack of evidence for the problem's supposed existence, but just the way the Republicans are going about implementing them. What do early voting laws have to do with anything these proposals purport to solve? And yet, they're being tinkered with everywhere.

[Sbane]

It is literally impossible to argue these are genuine laws being crafted in good faith to combat an actual problem, not only because of the utter lack of evidence for the problem's supposed existence, but just the way the Republicans are going about implementing them. What do early voting laws have to do with anything these proposals purport to solve? And yet, they're being tinkered with everywhere.

Yeah, especially the restricting early voting part. You seriously cannot defend that can you, Torie?

[Sbane]

Of course what the Democrats need to do is encourage absentee voting. That is something the Republicans have been reluctant to go after since a lot of their electorate uses it as well.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Of course what the Democrats need to do is encourage absentee voting. That is something the Republicans have been reluctant to go after since a lot of their electorate uses it as well.

What Democrats really need to do is pass electoral reform causes in states where they have fairly comfortable control in. Automatic voter registration or even so far as compulsory voting. Democrats shouldn't play defensive with these things, they should fight back against voter restrictions by passing laws that dramatically open up the amount of voters. There's literally no reason we shouldn't have automatic voter registration, it works great and there are several working systems we could replicate.

On the national level Democrats should make it a top priority to have an independent electoral oversight organization actually worth a damn. It should be rather telling if Republicans oppose that. (And they inevitably would.) Canada is a pretty good model for both the registration and a potential electoral watchdog group.

[Sbane]

I don't agree with compulsory voting but agree with everything else you said.

[dead0man]

I don't agree with compulsory voting but agree with everything else you said.

Same.  I'd have no problem with compulsory registration, though I'm sure certain anti-govt and paranoid types on both (all?) sides would. Compulsory voting is out of the question.  Too many uneducated/uncaring/apathetic people vote the way it is...why would anybody want their numbers to go up?  Unless you assume they would primarily vote for your side...but then that should make you question your side.

[J. J.]

While I think that everyone eligible should vote, I strongly oppose both mandatory registration and voting.  I think those things are a matter of personal choice and further, it would be difficult to do.

It is perfectly fine to require some form of ID to vote, but this law is too limiting in what to use.

[Link]

Funny thing.  We have had thread after thread about voter ID on this forum.  I've been a registered voter in, let's see..., seven states now, not including PA.  PA makes eight, I think.  And I've been voting pretty regularly since 1986.  Never once have I been asked for any sort of ID at the polls.   This will be a first.  

It actually states something to that effect on my newly-acquired Pennsylvania voter's registration card.  Let's see if I can dig it up...

Damn, you'd think I would keep up with stuff like that.  Well, anyway, I remember reading the back of it which states that I need to be prepared to show either a federally-issued or state-issued photo identification when I vote.  I read "state-issued" as "issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" or "not your Iowa Driver's license, by the way.  Find something else."  

I must remember to take my passport with me if and when I vote.  Presumably a US passport will qualify as "federally-issued photo identification."  

Oh, you poor ...

You now have to do what we voters in every other civilized country have to do, bring a valid photo ID to the polling place. That is such a hard thing to do ...

Okay you live in Austria?  I've been to Phili and I've been to Vienna.  They are not the same.  You guys used to have compulsory voting right? I'm pretty sure the infrastructure in socialized Austria is far more robust and complete for getting the people on the margins of society registered and to the polls.

Nobody has a problem with voter id... if everyone has it.  The problem is out of nowhere all of a sudden Republicans have come up with all sorts of weird voting laws.  Voter ID being just one of them.

That every citizen aged 16+ is automatically registered to vote here is not a feature of Socialism though.

Yes but the public transportation and social services are.  My European friends are always astonished when they visit me in the US and realize how much of the country is inaccessible without private transportation.  They are also amazed at how few services are available within cities particularly on nights and weekends.  For people living on the margins of society there is a tiny to nonexistent safety net.

It is perfectly fine to require some form of ID to vote, but this law is too limiting in what to use.

Sure as long as you have the infrastructure to get the ID to ALL citizens at no cost to them in a timely fashion.  But as these laws are currently being implemented they are illegal.  The FACTUAL data point we have is hundreds of thousands of voters in Pennsylvania do not have this type of ID.  The common sense thing to do is to figure out a way to get this ID to them BEFORE requiring it.  But then that would defeat the purpose.  Wouldn't it?

[Linus Van Pelt]

I don't agree with compulsory voting but agree with everything else you said.

Same.  I'd have no problem with compulsory registration, though I'm sure certain anti-govt and paranoid types on both (all?) sides would.

In Canada there is essentially an "opt-out" model of voter registration where government agencies by default share information with the national register of electors, but you can ask to get yourself removed, and you can check a box on your income tax form, drivers' licence applications, etc. if you don't want them to send the info. This seems like a good balance between making registration as easy as possible and the traditional Anglophone dislike of mandatory government tracking of domestic movement.

[nclib]

Pennsylvania courts cite a law from 1869:

http://www.witf.org/state-house-sound-bites/2012/09/voter-id-heads-to-the-state-supremes-tomorrow.php

From 1869:"rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors' boarding-houses and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes."

Can anyone even translate that passage into modern English?

[greenforest32]

Pennsylvania courts cite a law from 1869:

http://www.witf.org/state-house-sound-bites/2012/09/voter-id-heads-to-the-state-supremes-tomorrow.php

From 1869:"rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors' boarding-houses and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes."

Can anyone even translate that passage into modern English?

I wonder if it will be in place for the election considering an appeal to the US Supreme Court is likely after the state Supreme Court's decision and early voting begins in about 6 weeks for Pennsylvania?

[rwoy]

Pennsylvania courts cite a law from 1869:

http://www.witf.org/state-house-sound-bites/2012/09/voter-id-heads-to-the-state-supremes-tomorrow.php

From 1869:"rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors' boarding-houses and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes."

Can anyone even translate that passage into modern English?

I wonder if it will be in place for the election considering an appeal to the US Supreme Court is likely after the state Supreme Court's decision and early voting begins in about 6 weeks for Pennsylvania?

Hmm ... the US Supreme Court is a useless body.

[J. J.]

Pennsylvania courts cite a law from 1869:

http://www.witf.org/state-house-sound-bites/2012/09/voter-id-heads-to-the-state-supremes-tomorrow.php

From 1869:"rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors' boarding-houses and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes."

Can anyone even translate that passage into modern English?

"Ganstas and hoes don't go creeping in the boondocks at night.  Hooker hotels, Checkers, crack houses and bordellos are in the city wards, sending out people to vote for a forty or a couple bucks."

Well, you asked.

[Badger]

Pennsylvania courts cite a law from 1869:

http://www.witf.org/state-house-sound-bites/2012/09/voter-id-heads-to-the-state-supremes-tomorrow.php

From 1869:"rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors' boarding-houses and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes."

Can anyone even translate that passage into modern English?

"Ganstas and hoes don't go creeping in the boondocks at night.  Hooker hotels, Checkers, crack houses and bordellos are in the city wards, sending out people to vote for a forty or a couple bucks."

Well, you asked.

That's actually an excellant translation, JJ.  It's unfortunate to say the least this case, even if not this portion, was cited in support. Of the law.

[J. J.]

I added my middle name to my voter registration to correspond exactly to my license today.  They screwed up the spelling of first name, so I went into the office. 

What a crowd!  It was about a quarter black, a quarter Hispanic, a quarter a Asian, and a bit under a quarter white.  There were four of us, registering re-registering.  The state did do a purge since the last presidential as well.

[angus]

"Ganstas and hoes don't go creeping in the boondocks at night.  Hooker hotels, Checkers, crack houses and bordellos are in the city wards, sending out people to vote for a forty or a couple bucks."

Well done. 

[J. J.]

"Ganstas and hoes don't go creeping in the boondocks at night.  Hooker hotels, Checkers, crack houses and bordellos are in the city wards, sending out people to vote for a forty or a couple bucks."

Well done. 

It's easy; that's how I normally talk.

[J. J.]

The case was tossed back to the Commonwealth Court with instructions to rule on if there would be sufficient availability of identification. 

While there has been a wide (and nonpartisan) educational efforts, I have not seen any evidence of a major partisan registration drive.