Chicago teachers asking for 30% raises over next 2 years

[krazen1211]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/education/ct-met-ctu-proposals-0217-20120217,0,2167323,full.story

The Chicago Teachers Union is asking for raises amounting to 30 percent over the next two years, the opening salvo in heated contract negotiations with school officials who are implementing a longer school day across Chicago Public Schools next school year.

Some more facts:

1. Chicago school districts perform lousy.

http://nationsreportcard.gov/reading_2009/district_g8.asp

2. Chicago teacher salaries average $75k salary.

http://www.cps.edu/about_cps/at-a-glance/pages/stats_and_facts.aspx

3. Chicago public schools spend a massive whopping $13,078 per student per year.

4. The Chicago School day runs from 9 to 2:45.

5. The Chicago public school teachers get 4% raises annually.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/4852856-418/chicago-public-school-students-your-day-will-grow-emanuel-says.html





No wonder the city and the state are both broke when they're being looted like this.

[freepcrusher]

have you ever done anything productive aside from incessantly ranting and whining?

[Sibboleth]

Did a teacher once set your teddy bear on fire or something?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Are you still mad that you failed Algebra 2?

[asexual trans victimologist]

I'm sorry that beautiful English teacher turned out to be a lesbian. I really am.

[krazen1211]

Did a teacher once set your teddy bear on fire or something?

New Jersey property taxes are of course outrageous primarily due to the rampant spending on the government education industry complex.

So maybe a thousand teddy bears or so.

[freepcrusher]

Did a teacher once set your teddy bear on fire or something?

New Jersey property taxes are of course outrageous primarily due to the rampant spending on the government education industry complex.

So maybe a thousand teddy bears or so.

Howie Jarvis, is that you?

[Sibboleth]

property taxes

lol

[Senator Sbane]

Krazen's obsession notwithstanding, you guys really think teachers should get a 30% raise? Maybe they can at least tie it to performance?

[Torie]

Krazen's obsession notwithstanding, you guys really think teachers should get a 30% raise? Maybe they can at least tie it to performance?

If the worst 30% get fired, the best 30% can get a 30% raise.  The way this industry is run just drives me nuts, but then you, and presumably everyone else around here, already knew that.

The proposal on its face of course is ludicrous. Let's reward failure.

[Χahar]

Krazen's obsession notwithstanding, you guys really think teachers should get a 30% raise? Maybe they can at least tie it to performance?

What is "performance"?

[President Marokai]

Krazen's obsession notwithstanding, you guys really think teachers should get a 30% raise? Maybe they can at least tie it to performance?

In this case, no, I don't think they should get the raise, but I don't buy the "pay by performance" argument that much, partially because of what Xahar said, what it's difficult to agree on what "performance" is anyway, but also because it's not always fair to single out the teacher because of the nature of the work.

But aren't all jobs essentially "merit" based? If you are a bad factory worker, you get fired. If you suck at flipping burgers at Burger King, you get fired. The idea that you can't fire a teacher because her students aren't learning is absurd.

I suppose you could consider them such, but there's a difference between educational positions and flipping burgers. In the latter scenario, pretty much everything is provided to you. You have co-workers to rely on, the patties to cook, and a stove to cook them on, the tools to do it, and people to serve them to who are willing to eat.

In the former, the teacher may not have willing students to deal with. The teacher might be from an inner-city school with alot of cultural issues, or a poor school that needs repairs, or a school that lacks the necessary resources to compete with all the others. While the Burger King employee has everything there with him, it's almost entirely about his or her performance, while the teacher relies on everything that may not always be there. So there is more to blame for failing grades than just the teacher.

To make the burger flipper and the teacher on equal footing, you would have to throw a number of cogs in burger boy's machine. Unwilling customers, defective stoves, lack of burgers in stock, employees that are unreliable, etc.

[Senator Snowstalker]

The proposed pay raise is dumb. Merit pay, as at least 2 conservative teachers of mine have explained, is even dumber. This idea of teaching to a standardized test is ineffective and useless.

[Rooney]

Of course teachers are overpaid. I spend all day around them and can assure you they hardly deserve their salaries. I educate students who threaten to beat me up and have to deal with countless state and federal SPED mandates and I can assure you that I am overpaid.

[Senator Sbane]

Krazen's obsession notwithstanding, you guys really think teachers should get a 30% raise? Maybe they can at least tie it to performance?

In this case, no, I don't think they should get the raise, but I don't buy the "pay by performance" argument that much, partially because of what Xahar said, what it's difficult to agree on what "performance" is anyway, but also because it's not always fair to single out the teacher because of the nature of the work.

But aren't all jobs essentially "merit" based? If you are a bad factory worker, you get fired. If you suck at flipping burgers at Burger King, you get fired. The idea that you can't fire a teacher because her students aren't learning is absurd.

I suppose you could consider them such, but there's a difference between educational positions and flipping burgers. In the latter scenario, pretty much everything is provided to you. You have co-workers to rely on, the patties to cook, and a stove to cook them on, the tools to do it, and people to serve them to who are willing to eat.

In the former, the teacher may not have willing students to deal with. The teacher might be from an inner-city school with alot of cultural issues, or a poor school that needs repairs, or a school that lacks the necessary resources to compete with all the others. While the Burger King employee has everything there with him, it's almost entirely about his or her performance, while the teacher relies on everything that may not always be there. So there is more to blame for failing grades than just the teacher.

To make the burger flipper and the teacher on equal footing, you would have to throw a number of cogs in burger boy's machine. Unwilling customers, defective stoves, lack of burgers in stock, employees that are unreliable, etc.

Yeah, it's not that simple. Agreed. But I would look at maybe measuring teachers within schools? Obviously it is unfair to compare teachers in the suburbs with teachers in the inner cities. I just don't like how all the teachers get paid the same regardless of what they teach and how they do compared to other teachers teaching the same subject in their school. We all know there are good teachers and there are bad teachers. We know this from our experiences, don't we? Hell, a lot of the problem could be solved if some teachers could be fired from time to time, but it's not like the teacher's union will allow that. Or rewarding a young teacher who cares about teaching and is inspiring his students as compared to some old lazy ass who doesn't care much but still makes way more than that young teacher. That's another big no no from the teacher's union. When a self described communist (my AP US history teacher) has a problem with the teacher's union, you know there are some issues.

Also Science and Math teachers should be paid more. I know this will offend many people, but it must be so. Teachers who teach AP classes should be paid more as well. I know this is done in affluent school districts to a certain extent but is it done in poorer school districts?

[krazen1211]

Of course teachers are overpaid. I spend all day around them and can assure you they hardly deserve their salaries. I educate students who threaten to beat me up and have to deal with countless state and federal SPED mandates and I can assure you that I am overpaid.

The numbers clearly indicate so. $75k + lavish pension and benefits for a 30 hour week!

[bgwah]

I did some Googling and every number I found was lower than $75k, which your source says is from 2008. This 2011 article, for example, says the number is 69k. Perhaps the source you cited is adding other forms of compensation to the salary. Generous either way, though.

And 30% is of course ridiculous, but that's how bargaining works.

[asexual trans victimologist]

I'm not sure several of you really understand the intensity of what a lot of teachers do (Rooney does, obviously, but krazen's fixating on the length of the workweek is...chimerical, I would say).

[So the Heroes Fall]

Now's a good time to remind everyone of one of the most ignorant and idiotic things ever posted on the forum:

Teacher productivity? I'm lost for words.

The standard is quite obvious. The productivity of a teacher can reasonably be measured by the number of students one teachers. For some reason that number keeps declining.

[Fuzzy]

Now's a good time to remind everyone of one of the most ignorant and idiotic things ever posted on the forum:

Teacher productivity? I'm lost for words.

The standard is quite obvious. The productivity of a teacher can reasonably be measured by the number of students one teachers. For some reason that number keeps declining.

lol

[President Marokai]

Now's a good time to remind everyone of one of the most ignorant and idiotic things ever posted on the forum:

Teacher productivity? I'm lost for words.

The standard is quite obvious. The productivity of a teacher can reasonably be measured by the number of students one teachers. For some reason that number keeps declining.

A George W. Bush level of eloquence.

[True Federalist]

a 30 hour week!

Because of course assessing student work and making out lesson plans takes absolutely no time at all.

Classroom time is important, but an effective teacher ends up spending at least one hour outside the classroom preparing for what happens inside the classroom.

[Χahar]

Also Science and Math teachers should be paid more. I know this will offend many people, but it must be so.

Why must it be so? Or is it so self-evident that it needs no explanation?

[Senator Sbane]

Also Science and Math teachers should be paid more. I know this will offend many people, but it must be so.

Why must it be so? Or is it so self-evident that it needs no explanation?

Because they can many times find a job that pays them more? How do you get someone with a masters or PhD in Chemistry to teach AP Chem when you will only pay them 40k? At the same time some old timer who teaches computer skills or some other crap gets paid 80k just because they have been around for much longer.

[opebo]

I'm completely befuddled as to what krazen's on about here.  krazen, 75,000 is a middle class salary.