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Author Topic: If a Florida 2000 recount continued past January 20th 2001...  (Read 653 times)
GPORTER
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« on: December 16, 2012, 11:10:38 pm »
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does the speaker of the house become President?
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http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=195483.new#new
the birth of modern america & onward election Former Vice President Blanche Bruce defeats incumbent President Grover Cleveland in 1904. In an age of unpredictable election outcomes Bruce finds himself reelected in 1908 against an opponent whose name escapes me at the moment. Blanche Bruce served as Vice President under Frederick Douglas whom Cleveland defeated in 1900. His Vice President runs to replace Bruce in 1912.
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Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 11:59:02 pm »

does the speaker of the house become President?
No, at most the Speaker would become a temporary Acting President.

If Florida proved totally unable to select electors in time, then Florida would have simply not voted, and thus Gore would have won the electoral college 267-245.

If however electors had met and voted despite the ongoing recount in the contest to see who won the office of elector, then presumably 25 votes for Bush/Cheney would have been sent and it would have been up to Congress to decide whether they would be accepted.  However, it would take both Houses agreeing to reject them, otherwise they would have to be accepted under current law.  I can't see the Republican House voting to outright reject them unless a Florida recount was completed before January 6th 2001, the day the electoral votes were scheduled to be counted, and Gore won the recount. It's possible that if the recount was still going on, the House would refuse to decide whether to reject or accept the votes and thus leave the election in limbo, which would indeed trigger having the Speaker become Acting President, but only until the question of whether to accept Florida's 25 votes had been resolved and a President had been elected. (At which point the former Speaker would if he was lucky, be able to file for the special election to fill the seat he had had to resign from to become Acting President. This is one more reason the Speaker and PPT need to be removed from the line of succession.)
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Ervin(I) Gov.
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Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
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Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
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TBD: Lex 1 School Board
Yes: Am. 1 (allow charity raffles)
No: Am. 2 (end election of the Adj. General)
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 09:42:26 am »
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If the recounts had gone past the deadline to send the electors, then the election would have gone to the House of Representatives.  At least, that's what one of my PoliSci professors said.
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When I voted for the first time a few weeks ago, I announced "damnit, I voted for Pat Buchanan!" Nobody got it.
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 09:57:36 am »
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If the recounts had gone past the deadline to send the electors, then the election would have gone to the House of Representatives.  At least, that's what one of my PoliSci professors said.

What kind of professors do you have?
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Ernest
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 12:44:17 pm »

If the recounts had gone past the deadline to send the electors, then the election would have gone to the House of Representatives.  At least, that's what one of my PoliSci professors said.

What kind of professors do you have?

Sloppy apparently.  It never could have gone into the House for a majority of delegations vote as in 1800 and 1824.  There were only four possible outcomes.

Gore wins 267-245 (Florida's votes are not counted)
Gore wins 292-245 (Florida's votes are counted for Gore)
Bush wins 270-267 (Florida's votes are counted for Bush)
The Speaker of the House becomes Acting President pending the outcome of the recount which would allow for the counting of the electoral votes of all the states.

(Said speaker need not have been Hastert.  Indeed, the House might have chosen to temporarily name Bush as Speaker so that he would become Acting President until the recount was done.)
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My ballot:
Ervin(I) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D/Working Families) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
TBD: Lex 1 School Board
Yes: Am. 1 (allow charity raffles)
No: Am. 2 (end election of the Adj. General)
No: Local Sales Tax
Yes: Temp Beer/Wine Permits
Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 01:52:53 pm »
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If the recounts had gone past the deadline to send the electors, then the election would have gone to the House of Representatives.  At least, that's what one of my PoliSci professors said.

What kind of professors do you have?

Sloppy apparently.  It never could have gone into the House for a majority of delegations vote as in 1800 and 1824.  There were only four possible outcomes.

Gore wins 267-245 (Florida's votes are not counted)
Gore wins 292-245 (Florida's votes are counted for Gore)
Bush wins 270-267 (Florida's votes are counted for Bush)
The Speaker of the House becomes Acting President pending the outcome of the recount which would allow for the counting of the electoral votes of all the states.

(Said speaker need not have been Hastert.  Indeed, the House might have chosen to temporarily name Bush as Speaker so that he would become Acting President until the recount was done.)
Gore could not have won with 267 electoral votes since 270 is a majority.  In that case, it would go to the House.  My professor said he remembers his fellow political scientists were hoping it would go past the deadline so that the election would go to a House vote.  They had to recount the votes to make sure the result was accurate, but if the Supreme Court hadn't ordered them to end the counts, the election would have been decided by the House, where Bush most likely would have won.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 01:56:11 pm by Oldiesfreak1854 »Logged

Quote from: Dwight D. Eisenhower
There is nothing wrong with America that the faith, love of freedom, intelligence, and energy of her citizens cannot cure.
When I voted for the first time a few weeks ago, I announced "damnit, I voted for Pat Buchanan!" Nobody got it.
Franzl
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 03:41:08 pm »
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The words "Florida 2000" and "accurate" aren't really words you should use together Smiley
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True Federalist
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 04:29:50 pm »

Gore could not have won with 267 electoral votes since 270 is a majority.  In that case, it would go to the House.  My professor said he remembers his fellow political scientists were hoping it would go past the deadline so that the election would go to a House vote.  They had to recount the votes to make sure the result was accurate, but if the Supreme Court hadn't ordered them to end the counts, the election would have been decided by the House, where Bush most likely would have won.

If Florida never appoints electors (which would have been the only way to get a 267-245 result) then the number needed for the constitutionally required "a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed" would be 257 of the 513 Electors appointed.  The requirement is "a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed" not "a majority of the whole number of Electors apportioned".

(Note, the DC elector who was appointed but did not cast a vote, does count for determining what is needed for a majority.)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 04:36:08 pm by True Federalist »Logged

My ballot:
Ervin(I) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D/Working Families) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
TBD: Lex 1 School Board
Yes: Am. 1 (allow charity raffles)
No: Am. 2 (end election of the Adj. General)
No: Local Sales Tax
Yes: Temp Beer/Wine Permits
Gary J
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2012, 10:14:45 am »
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In the hypothetical case that the President had not been chosen by the start of the term, would not the Vice President elect have become acting President rather than the Speaker? If the electoral votes for Vice President had not resulted in an election, then the Senate would select the Vice President. Although, as the Senate was evenly divided in early 2001, the Speaker might have become acting President, until Jim Jeffords became an Independent in June and then Joe Lieberman could be elected Vice President and displace the ex-Speaker, as acting President.
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2012, 02:16:09 pm »

Yes, if there is a Vice President-elect, but no President-elect, the Vice President would serve as Acting President until a President was elected.  And as you noticed, tho often is not noticed, the Senate's vote for Vice President is one that the sitting Vice President does not get to act as the tie-breaker for since it requires a majority of all the Senators, whether they are voting or not, so 51 Senators are needed.
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My ballot:
Ervin(I) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D/Working Families) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
TBD: Lex 1 School Board
Yes: Am. 1 (allow charity raffles)
No: Am. 2 (end election of the Adj. General)
No: Local Sales Tax
Yes: Temp Beer/Wine Permits
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