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Author Topic: Girl Gets Death Threats for Defending God-Ordained Marriage  (Read 2380 times)
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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2012, 01:36:58 pm »

What the f[Inks] is "God-Ordained Marriage"?  Is that what the bible thumpers are calling their "only-we-can-use-and-abuse-it-and-you-can't-have-it-at-all" deal these days?
Doesn't Inks have no authority on this board? Or can any moderator infraction?

That's the way Joe typed it. It wasn't edited by Inks or anyone else.
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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2012, 01:43:54 pm »
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Eyeballing North Dakota as a state I'd guess that support for gay marriage is probably somewhere around a third or slightly more than a third, gay marriage plus civil unions somewhere in the very high thirties or low-to-mid forties (I might be lowballing that; you obviously know more about North Dakota than I do, since you're from there).

I don't think so.  (Compare to Utah).

That was enough time ago that I don't think assuming a 7-10 point swing in attitudes is unreasonable. Remember that in 2004 gay marriage nationwide was polling for the most part well under forty per cent.

Even a 7-10 point swing still gets you to barely a third even supporting civil unions, and it must be remembered that there's a very large "Bradley effect" with gay marriage polling (see; Prop 8 and Maine).
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« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2012, 10:56:44 am »
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That poor girl.  Not only has she been brainwashed, but she's being used as a sacrificial lamb by the bigot brigade.

I'm proud of this girl taking a stand for righteousness, natural law, and virtue.
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« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2012, 02:22:45 pm »
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That poor girl.  Not only has she been brainwashed, but she's being used as a sacrificial lamb by the bigot brigade.
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« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2012, 02:37:04 pm »
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Eyeballing North Dakota as a state I'd guess that support for gay marriage is probably somewhere around a third or slightly more than a third, gay marriage plus civil unions somewhere in the very high thirties or low-to-mid forties (I might be lowballing that; you obviously know more about North Dakota than I do, since you're from there).

I don't think so.  (Compare to Utah).

That was enough time ago that I don't think assuming a 7-10 point swing in attitudes is unreasonable. Remember that in 2004 gay marriage nationwide was polling for the most part well under forty per cent.

Even a 7-10 point swing still gets you to barely a third even supporting civil unions, and it must be remembered that there's a very large "Bradley effect" with gay marriage polling (see; Prop 8 and Maine).

I think the 'Bradley effect' is becoming chimerical on this issue. I think it's an issue of actually bothering to turn out; I think it's that that polls are bad at measuring on this issue. I don't think many people actually bother to outright lie to pollsters about it these days, because I can't really envision a psychology that would be cognizant enough of the way public morality works to bother to lie and at the same time hidebound enough to have that be a lie. I think most people who oppose gay marriage these days are pretty vocal about it.

Then again, I suppose we shall see in several states this year. If the apparent shift in opinion does turn out to have to do with people lying to pollsters in order to feel better about themselves, I'm about ready to give up and start my own monastic commune where people won't have to deal with this sort of gratuitously and needlessly cruel bullsh**t.
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« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2012, 06:51:23 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."
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« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2012, 07:39:30 pm »
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http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/what-we-do/news-and-updates/girl-gets-death-threat-for-defending-god-ordained-marriage.html

"Tolerance"

No! Not them...

No country deserve this.
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« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2012, 08:03:55 pm »
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You Repubs are all the same on social issues. You take away our rights and trod our faces into the dirt, and then you cry 'discrimination' when we fight back.
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There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2012, 02:46:50 pm »
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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2012, 02:49:30 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."
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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2012, 04:20:29 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."
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« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2012, 08:34:03 pm »
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You Repubs are all the same on social issues. You take away our rights and trod our faces into the dirt, and then you cry 'discrimination' when we fight back.

I hear it's not nice to judge on baseless generalizations. I hear it makes you as bad as the people you're accusing of it.

And no, before you inevitably try to rip into me in response, I do not support the sub-brick cretins sending these death threats, nor do I support their party. But I suggest you think before you paint all conservatives with the same brush.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 08:35:40 pm by NVTownsend »Logged
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« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2012, 08:56:57 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."

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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

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« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2012, 09:18:46 pm »
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You Repubs are all the same on social issues. You take away our rights and trod our faces into the dirt, and then you cry 'discrimination' when we fight back.

I hear it's not nice to judge on baseless generalizations. I hear it makes you as bad as the people you're accusing of it.

And no, before you inevitably try to rip into me in response, I do not support the sub-brick cretins sending these death threats, nor do I support their party. But I suggest you think before you paint all conservatives with the same brush.
Sorry. I was speaking in a pandery way and playing to the base with points that kinda make sense but not really.
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There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

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« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2012, 10:56:45 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."
That's nothing like any argument that's ever been made against interracial marriage.
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« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2012, 11:07:35 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."
That's nothing like any argument that's ever been made against interracial marriage.

Missed the point.  Entirely.
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« Reply #41 on: February 29, 2012, 12:06:21 am »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."
That's nothing like any argument that's ever been made against interracial marriage.

Actually, "the kids will suffer" was very much a (circular) argument against interracial marriage.
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« Reply #42 on: February 29, 2012, 12:10:01 am »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."
That's nothing like any argument that's ever been made against interracial marriage.

Actually, "the kids will suffer" was very much a (circular) argument against interracial marriage.

The reasoning of bigots holds no bounds.
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« Reply #43 on: February 29, 2012, 11:25:08 am »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."

I don't know the reasoning behind this girl's and her family's opposition to gay marriage. However, I want to maintain that - from a Christian point of view - it is unfair to suggest that opposition to interracial marriage is the same as opposition to gay marriage. While opposition to interracial marriage in general cannot be backed up biblically, opposition to gay marriage is actually the default Christian position (look at the biblical evidence). Thus, it is simply not accurate to equate these two issues when it comes to a Christian's view on gay marriage.
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« Reply #44 on: February 29, 2012, 12:19:52 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."

I don't know the reasoning behind this girl's and her family's opposition to gay marriage. However, I want to maintain that - from a Christian point of view - it is unfair to suggest that opposition to interracial marriage is the same as opposition to gay marriage. While opposition to interracial marriage in general cannot be backed up biblically, opposition to gay marriage is actually the default Christian position (look at the biblical evidence). Thus, it is simply not accurate to equate these two issues when it comes to a Christian's view on gay marriage.

Folks opposed to interracial marriage used Biblical citations all the time, and they even were implicitly prominent in Loving v. Virginia.  Christians have no problem civilly recognizing marriages the Bible explicitly prohibits, such as among believers and non-believers, ostensibly on the grounds that it's civil and not religious marriage, and that religious liberty dictates that the government not make calls on scriptural interpretations like this.  In fact, I've never met a Christian who is bothered by this holding, and I've asked.  But gay marriage?  Apparently that's different.

Of course it's not appropriate to equate the two.  They are not the same thing, but the analogies are strong enough to show an obvious dissonance between conservative Christian's treatment of other types of religiously "questionable" marriages and the gays'.  It all seems like weak special pleading to me.
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« Reply #45 on: February 29, 2012, 01:27:52 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."

I don't know the reasoning behind this girl's and her family's opposition to gay marriage. However, I want to maintain that - from a Christian point of view - it is unfair to suggest that opposition to interracial marriage is the same as opposition to gay marriage. While opposition to interracial marriage in general cannot be backed up biblically, opposition to gay marriage is actually the default Christian position (look at the biblical evidence). Thus, it is simply not accurate to equate these two issues when it comes to a Christian's view on gay marriage.

I can think of at least seven possible interpretations of what the 'default Christian position' based on biblical evidence on this subject should be, off the top of my head.
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« Reply #46 on: February 29, 2012, 03:59:29 pm »
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Hi, Im Sarah Crank.  Todays my 14th birthday, and it would be the best birthday present ever if you would vote no on gay interracial marriage. I really feel bad for the kids who have two parents of the same gender different skin color.  Even though some kids think its fine, they have no idea what kind of wonderful experiences they miss out on. I don't want more kids to get confused about what's right and okay. I really don't want to grow up in a world where marriage isn't such a special thing anymore."

I don't know the reasoning behind this girl's and her family's opposition to gay marriage. However, I want to maintain that - from a Christian point of view - it is unfair to suggest that opposition to interracial marriage is the same as opposition to gay marriage. While opposition to interracial marriage in general cannot be backed up biblically, opposition to gay marriage is actually the default Christian position (look at the biblical evidence). Thus, it is simply not accurate to equate these two issues when it comes to a Christian's view on gay marriage.

Folks opposed to interracial marriage used Biblical citations all the time, and they even were implicitly prominent in Loving v. Virginia.  Christians have no problem civilly recognizing marriages the Bible explicitly prohibits, such as among believers and non-believers, ostensibly on the grounds that it's civil and not religious marriage, and that religious liberty dictates that the government not make calls on scriptural interpretations like this.  In fact, I've never met a Christian who is bothered by this holding, and I've asked.  But gay marriage?  Apparently that's different.

Of course it's not appropriate to equate the two.  They are not the same thing, but the analogies are strong enough to show an obvious dissonance between conservative Christian's treatment of other types of religiously "questionable" marriages and the gays'.  It all seems like weak special pleading to me.

The mere fact that there are people who try to find biblical reasons to oppose interracial marriage does not mean these reasons are legitimate. Indeed, there is no biblical passage that generally forbids interracial marriage. Rather, it appears that these passages opponents of interracial marriage so frequently cite condemn marriage between Jews and non-Jews or Christians and those who do not believe; it is the faith, not the race of people which matters here. So in order to come up with a biblical explanation against interracial marriage one has to do a lot of spinning.

On the other hand, you find passages both in the OT and the NT which literally and unequivocally condemn sexual intercourse between people of the same sex, which has led me to say that opposition to gay marriage is the "default Christian position". Only if one openly ignores these passages one can claim gay marriage is ok from a biblical perspective - but that puts you in a very weak position if you want to base your argument on the Bible; there are simply no passages in the Bible which can be interpreted as pro gay marriage.

Regarding the second point you made, yes, you are right. The Bible warns Christians to enter a (love) relationship with non-believers. But even if a marriage between a believer and non-believer is wrong from a Christian perspective, there is no realistic way this can be prevented because such marriages have existed legally for thousands of years already. Changing this is simply not feasible, unless you want to "privatize" marriage, an idea I could theoretically support. But does the fact that a non-biblical form of marriage already is place mean Christians should support all other non-biblical forms of marriage in consequence? I don't think so.
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« Reply #47 on: February 29, 2012, 07:47:22 pm »
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My point was mainly that opposing marriage between two consenting adults based on the characteristics of the relationship, like sexual orientation or skin color, is not very different-  irrespective of what the Bible says on each individual issue.  The equal rights of one group shouldn't take any more relevance or legitimacy over another group, and I don't see how having religious faith excuses that way of thinking or what makes religion-inspired discrimination different from regular discrimination.  Whether you oppose the rights of African Americans to marry who they want or the rights of homosexuals to marry who they want, essentially that is still discrimination.

So no, while they are not the exact same thing, people have opposed these marriages on religious grounds for decades.  And what the girl said in the video is very common to how people thought in the 1950s, only for a different group of people.
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« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2012, 12:38:21 am »
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ZuWo,

I understand that, and I understand the distinction.  My point was this: I really don't doubt that those folks, at the time, believed that their religion suborned the prohibition of interracial civil marriages.  Is their interpretation of the Bible inaccurate?  Yeah, I think so, and I think you're right that the Bible prohibits homosexuality explicitly.

However, do you really think Christians would support prohibitions on interfaith or "unequally yoked" marriages?  You say it's a practical problem because they've been around for "thousands of years."  That's fair...but has there ever been a serious attempt to limit such marriages, especially in the U.S.?  Every single conservative Christian I've asked has regarded this as a religious liberties issues, and not something that the government should engage in ascertaining the truth of.

I'm not arguing that there's a formal logical inconsistency here -- you may very well be consistent, but does it not seem like gay marriage is getting a special level of scrutiny here simply because it's not traditional?
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« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2012, 01:28:31 am »
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To be fair, we wouldn't be doing our jobs as godless heathens if the girl went unlynched.
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It's still rather frustrating when you consider how many people with far better work histories than Jeff have to spend months or years unemployed before they finally get an offer.

Life is not fair.
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