Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 25, 2014, 01:45:04 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Individual Politics (Moderators: Grad Students are the Worst, Torie, Sheriff Buford TX Justice)
| | |-+  Why Ron Paul over Gary Johnson?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Why Ron Paul over Gary Johnson?  (Read 624 times)
Cobbler
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 807
United States


View Profile
« on: February 22, 2012, 03:01:17 pm »
Ignore

Something I can't really understand is why libertarians I know tend to prefer Ron Paul over Gary Johnson. It seems to me that Gary Johnson is more of an actual libertarian while Ron Paul is more of a paleoconservative. He believes in individual liberties at all levels, while Paul just believes in them on a federal level (he more or less thinks states should be able to reduce our liberties however). Johnson also has executive experience running a state and won reelection twice, while Ron Paul has just been a Representative.

The reason that I could think that people would be supporting Paul over Johnson may be because of name recognition, but I think it could be argued that had Paul not gotten into the race, then the libertarian vote would have gone to Johnson and he'd have done better. Plus, Johnson was in to actually win, whereareas I get the impression that Paul is either in it to help his son's future career or because he has liked being the leader of a movement.

So why is it that libertarians prefer Paul to Johnson?
Logged


Quote
Economic score: +2.19
Social score: -5.74
oakvale
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9187
Palestinian Territory, Occupied
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 03:03:58 pm »
Ignore

Johnson's just kind of goofy, Paul is much more suited to the role of apocalyptic cult leader.

Obviously Johnson's somewhat less of a joke than Paul, and has the advantage of not (as far as I know) being associated with white supremacists and other undesirables, but it's a perception thing.
Logged

AverroŽs Nix
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9643
United States


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 05:54:23 pm »
Ignore

1 - Johnson has poor national name recognition & even weaker electoral prospects than Paul.
2 - What Oakvale said. Johnson lacks charisma, while Paul inspires devotion.
3 - Many Ron Paul supporters find paleoconservative-style libertarianism more appealing than Johnson's brand (what you call "actual libertarianism").
Logged

R2D2
20RP12
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21729
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.55, S: -7.91

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 06:11:05 pm »
Ignore

For me, I probably match Gary Johnson more issue-wise, but Ron Paul just has that charisma. When he speaks, I stop to listen. It's inspiring almost. I mean, not in the way that Obama is inspiring, but it makes sense. When Gary Johnson speaks it's just kinda dull.
Logged

ChairmanSanchez
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14756
United States


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 07:57:29 pm »
Ignore

For me, I probably match Gary Johnson more issue-wise, but Ron Paul just has that charisma. When he speaks, I stop to listen. It's inspiring almost. I mean, not in the way that Obama is inspiring, but it makes sense. When Gary Johnson speaks it's just kinda dull.
Paul has an odd charisma. I do not know what it is, but I love it. I feel like I am fixing a problem by supporting Paul. Gary Johnson does not have the leadership qualities, in my opinion. When I hear him, I think "makes sense but will never happen". Then Paul will say the exact same thing, and I interpret it differently. He knows how to use the Constitution and Congress to get it done.

Arlo Guthrie (who I might go and see Friday night) said it right: Paul is the only candidate who would of signed the Constitution if he were there. I don't even think Johnson would.
Logged

America's like that hot chick everyone wants, and illegal immigrants are all the nerds that she should say "no" to.
#Ready4Nixon
Cathcon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14890
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 08:38:57 pm »
Ignore

Paul has had over thirty years to build a reputation as "Dr. No", a defender of civil liberties, an opponent of foreign intervention, etc. he's used his platform as a Congressman much more than Johnson has as a Governor to push his political agenda, has actually run on a Libertarian ticket, and also has a Presidential campaign from four years ago that has built him organization and once more, name recognition. Paul is the leader of the movement, Johnson's a goofy follower. (I personally think Johnson could've been a good candidate had he run in the right year, 2000 or 2008. He was a popular governor from a swing state with a good fiscal record. However, he's waited til ten years after leaving office to try something and no wonder he's failed, especially when originally it was thought he'd support Paul or vice-versa)
Logged

Lt. Governor Dr. Cynic
Dr. Cynic
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11338
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.11, S: -6.09

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 06:19:37 am »
Ignore

For me, I probably match Gary Johnson more issue-wise, but Ron Paul just has that charisma. When he speaks, I stop to listen. It's inspiring almost. I mean, not in the way that Obama is inspiring, but it makes sense. When Gary Johnson speaks it's just kinda dull.
Paul has an odd charisma. I do not know what it is, but I love it. I feel like I am fixing a problem by supporting Paul. Gary Johnson does not have the leadership qualities, in my opinion. When I hear him, I think "makes sense but will never happen". Then Paul will say the exact same thing, and I interpret it differently. He knows how to use the Constitution and Congress to get it done.

Arlo Guthrie (who I might go and see Friday night) said it right: Paul is the only candidate who would of signed the Constitution if he were there. I don't even think Johnson would.

I suppose you and I define charisma differently. We probably do. Every time I look at Paul or listen to him talk, all I see and hear are a weak-voiced old man who looks like a stiff breeze would blow him over.

I'm also not quite sure I understand your last point. What does Guthrie mean by saying Paul is the only candidate who would have signed the Constitution if he were there? There's no way to prove that statement true or false, especially considering that the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation, which were proven failed. In doing so, one has to put themselves in the position of a delegate to the Constitutional Convention, only then can they determine if they would have signed it. Guthrie's statement is pure conjecture as I interpret it.
Logged

Mechaman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13698
Jamaica


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 07:25:39 am »
Ignore

For me, I probably match Gary Johnson more issue-wise, but Ron Paul just has that charisma. When he speaks, I stop to listen. It's inspiring almost. I mean, not in the way that Obama is inspiring, but it makes sense. When Gary Johnson speaks it's just kinda dull.
Paul has an odd charisma. I do not know what it is, but I love it. I feel like I am fixing a problem by supporting Paul. Gary Johnson does not have the leadership qualities, in my opinion. When I hear him, I think "makes sense but will never happen". Then Paul will say the exact same thing, and I interpret it differently. He knows how to use the Constitution and Congress to get it done.

Arlo Guthrie (who I might go and see Friday night) said it right: Paul is the only candidate who would of signed the Constitution if he were there. I don't even think Johnson would.

I suppose you and I define charisma differently. We probably do. Every time I look at Paul or listen to him talk, all I see and hear are a weak-voiced old man who looks like a stiff breeze would blow him over.

I'm also not quite sure I understand your last point. What does Guthrie mean by saying Paul is the only candidate who would have signed the Constitution if he were there? There's no way to prove that statement true or false, especially considering that the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation, which were proven failed. In doing so, one has to put themselves in the position of a delegate to the Constitutional Convention, only then can they determine if they would have signed it. Guthrie's statement is pure conjecture as I interpret it.

Considering what the Articles of Confederation entailed and that the Constitution was viewed by (diehard) defenders of the Articles as pretty much a concession to centralized government, Ron Paul might actually be the only candidate to not sign the Constitution.

Now if the guy was talking about the Declaration of Independence....yeah I could see that.
Logged

R2D2
20RP12
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21729
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.55, S: -7.91

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 09:18:53 am »
Ignore

Mechaman's right. In the days of the Constitution, the major focal point was to create an effective central Government. But now, the Government has gotten so out of control that Ron Paul is advocating a Constitutional view of Government. Basically, in the days of the Constitution, Ron Paul would have argued entirely for State Government control.
Logged

PASOK Leader Hashemite
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31326
South Africa



View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 09:30:21 am »
Ignore

Ron Paul charismatic? What next, Stephen Harper a liberal environmentalist?
Logged


Mr. Taft Republican
Taft4Prez
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1242
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 10:51:53 am »
Ignore

Gary Johnson is a libertarian. Ron Paul is a Constitutionalist. Really, for America's current needs and seeing how our freedom's are being degraded, I would prefer either one of them. Paul's just got the namesake to back him up.
Logged

Criticism in a time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government.- Robert Taft
Herman Cain's Gold Chain
Lief
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31903
Dominica


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 12:16:55 pm »
Ignore

Most of Ron Paul's supporters are not actually libertarians, not in the way the word is traditionally used. They're mostly working-class anti-government conspiracy types, so Paul's bizarre conspiracy-fueled paleoconservatism is right up their alley.
Logged



(Part of the 2012 Election Throwback Series)
oakvale
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9187
Palestinian Territory, Occupied
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 12:22:54 pm »
Ignore

Ron Paul charismatic? What next, Stephen Harper a liberal environmentalist?

We don't see it, obviously, but then we don't have the bug in our brains that makes people see Ron Paul as the next Thomas Jefferson. Paul appeals to some weird part of the reptile brain, especially in the young (given his vote totals thus far, mostly those too young to vote Wink. To take Chairman Sanchez's - who's like fifteen years old - quote...

Paul has an odd charisma. I do not know what it is, but I love it. I feel like I am fixing a problem by supporting Paul.

You see?

And, yes, this -

Most of Ron Paul's supporters are not actually libertarians, not in the way the word is traditionally used. They're mostly working-class anti-government conspiracy types, so Paul's bizarre conspiracy-fueled paleoconservatism is right up their alley.
Logged

Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26763


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 04:27:17 pm »
Ignore

Why Mitt Romney over Jon Huntsman?
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
ChairmanSanchez
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14756
United States


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 04:40:21 pm »
Ignore

For me, I probably match Gary Johnson more issue-wise, but Ron Paul just has that charisma. When he speaks, I stop to listen. It's inspiring almost. I mean, not in the way that Obama is inspiring, but it makes sense. When Gary Johnson speaks it's just kinda dull.
Paul has an odd charisma. I do not know what it is, but I love it. I feel like I am fixing a problem by supporting Paul. Gary Johnson does not have the leadership qualities, in my opinion. When I hear him, I think "makes sense but will never happen". Then Paul will say the exact same thing, and I interpret it differently. He knows how to use the Constitution and Congress to get it done.

Arlo Guthrie (who I might go and see Friday night) said it right: Paul is the only candidate who would of signed the Constitution if he were there. I don't even think Johnson would.

I suppose you and I define charisma differently. We probably do. Every time I look at Paul or listen to him talk, all I see and hear are a weak-voiced old man who looks like a stiff breeze would blow him over.

I'm also not quite sure I understand your last point. What does Guthrie mean by saying Paul is the only candidate who would have signed the Constitution if he were there? There's no way to prove that statement true or false, especially considering that the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation, which were proven failed. In doing so, one has to put themselves in the position of a delegate to the Constitutional Convention, only then can they determine if they would have signed it. Guthrie's statement is pure conjecture as I interpret it.

Considering what the Articles of Confederation entailed and that the Constitution was viewed by (diehard) defenders of the Articles as pretty much a concession to centralized government, Ron Paul might actually be the only candidate to not sign the Constitution.

Now if the guy was talking about the Declaration of Independence....yeah I could see that.
I made a misstatement. Paul would not sign the Constitution in 1787, and as usual, I got caught up in my own stupidity. You all are indeed correct that Paul would of lead the charge AGAINST it in 1787. But, alas, as 20RP12 pointed out, we are now only trying to reduce government back to where it was when the Constitution was adopted.
Logged

America's like that hot chick everyone wants, and illegal immigrants are all the nerds that she should say "no" to.
Mechaman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13698
Jamaica


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2012, 12:39:58 am »
Ignore

Ron Paul charismatic? What next, Stephen Harper a liberal environmentalist?

We don't see it, obviously, but then we don't have the bug in our brains that makes people see Ron Paul as the next Thomas Jefferson. Paul appeals to some weird part of the reptile brain, especially in the young (given his vote totals thus far, mostly those too young to vote Wink. To take Chairman Sanchez's - who's like fifteen years old - quote...

Paul has an odd charisma. I do not know what it is, but I love it. I feel like I am fixing a problem by supporting Paul.

You see?

And, yes, this -

Most of Ron Paul's supporters are not actually libertarians, not in the way the word is traditionally used. They're mostly working-class anti-government conspiracy types, so Paul's bizarre conspiracy-fueled paleoconservatism is right up their alley.

To be fair I don't really consider Paul to be the most charismatic politician ever.  But so definitely the hell isn't Gary Johnson.

I mean no offense but Gary Johnson almost makes Tim Pawlenty sound excitable.  I'm not talking about positions here, I'm talking about personality.  Gary Johnson strikes me at best as a long time psychologist specializing in dealing with patients with a history of drug and alcohol abuse.  One-on-one the man could convince you he's your best friend forever over a cup at the local fair trade coffeehouse.  However, when standing on a stage before television audiences of millions of people the effect becomes very dissonant.
That's where the difference between "likability" and "charisma" comes in.  Gary Johnson is probably the most likable candidate on a personal level, but he doesn't have any charisma.

Ron Paul may not have the right kind of charisma, but at least it's there.
Logged

Passing Through a Screen Door
BRTD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 71860
Sweden


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 02:45:43 am »
Ignore

Johnson strikes me as a somewhat sane libertarian in that he actually focuses on real issues and not End the Fed/Gold Standard type nonsense, but I'm not surprised he can't generate the fanfare Paul does. Paul has been a vocal proponent of libertarian causes for several decades and made a real name for himself in Congress, Johnson is just some former Governor who has called for legalizing marijuana.
Logged

Victory over Inks dedicated in memory.


01/05/2004-01/10/2014
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines