Santorum: Obama 'A Snob' For Wanting Everyone To Go To College

[nhmagic]

Another example, not college but high school.  While leading our class in the pledge of allegiance the day after Bush won reelection, our english teacher said "Justice for some".  Also in this class, he lectured us about the plight of the family in the book and their justified move towards socialism.

Some more "great" reading: Howard Zinn, Nudge (by none other than Cass Sunstein of the Obama admin)...

The guest speakers in my classes have always been democrat politicians, campaign reps, union reps, etc.

And there's more.

[asexual trans victimologist]

Another example, not college but high school.  While leading our class in the pledge of allegiance the day after Bush won reelection, our english teacher said "Justice for some".  Also in this class, he lectured us about the plight of the family in the book and their justified move towards socialism.

Some more "great" reading: Howard Zinn, Nudge (by none other than Cass Sunstein of the Obama admin)...

The guest speakers in my classes have always been democrat politicians, campaign reps, union reps, etc.

And there's more.

It doesn't sound like you have particularly good teachers. There is, at the high school level and lower, something of a reactive nationalist bias in typical curricula, but that sounds like overcorrection to me.

[greenforest32]

A political belief system that is hostile and dismissive to rational thinking and empirical evidence/facts is a failure. Its only strength will be in numbers.

Is it any surprise conservatism and religion are so linked together?

[asexual trans victimologist]

Is it any surprise conservatism and religion are so linked together?

Yes, actually, if you know anything about religion.

[Progressive Realist]

Is it any surprise conservatism and religion are so linked together?

Yes, actually, if you know anything about religion.

The better word in this context is "fundamentalism" rather than religion.

[asexual trans victimologist]

Is it any surprise conservatism and religion are so linked together?

Yes, actually, if you know anything about religion.

The better word in this context is "fundamentalism" rather than religion.

And of course that isn't a surprise.

[Χahar]

I find it kind of hilarious that azmagic is appalled about being taught about evolution in a biology class. If he didn't want to learn biology, maybe he shouldn't have taken that class.

[nhmagic]

I find it kind of hilarious that azmagic is appalled about being taught about evolution in a biology class. If he didn't want to learn biology, maybe he shouldn't have taken that class.

Not appalled, I expected it.  And the class was required - well at least a general science, and it fit the bill at the time I needed it.

Additionally, it was the manner in which he presented it - as something to convert nonbelievers.

[nhmagic]

Another example, not college but high school.  While leading our class in the pledge of allegiance the day after Bush won reelection, our english teacher said "Justice for some".  Also in this class, he lectured us about the plight of the family in the book and their justified move towards socialism.

Some more "great" reading: Howard Zinn, Nudge (by none other than Cass Sunstein of the Obama admin)...

The guest speakers in my classes have always been democrat politicians, campaign reps, union reps, etc.

And there's more.

It doesn't sound like you have particularly good teachers. There is, at the high school level and lower, something of a reactive nationalist bias in typical curricula, but that sounds like overcorrection to me.

Actually, our history books in high school had glowing profiles of Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, while taking the time to dispute Reagan's accomplishments.  Also, we were taught how the Indian tribes practiced a primitive form of socialism - when in actuality it was a couple tribes and not all of them.

The best teachers I have had were actually the ones teaching practical, useful topics - home ec, financial management (for the masters), human resources management, local govt admin, etc.  If you're implying that I got a slate of liberal teachers throughout my life simply as a coincidence, I would disagree.

There are several things that occur both intentionally and unintentionally in college that mold students into leftists. 

First, groupthink and peer pressure.  One person has a cause and proseletyzes other students about it getting people to shake their heads in agreement (metaphorically) and those students join the cause becoming zealots themselves.  Professors can also lead students to come to a certain conclusion and reward (through a praising complement).  As other students see this, they also crave being intellectually valued by their instructor. 

Second, the immorality and sensuality that comes as part of the college experience.  The constant partying and pressure to identify yourself to the world is encouraged.  Who wants to be just one of 60,000 (or whatever the campus size is)?  So, you have your gender groups and your sexuality groups and your race groups out and about encouraging people to explore themselves in a sensual or narcissistic manner. 

Third, the professors themselves are liberal and want to get people to vote democrat.  And its that simple.  Curriculum is created in order to foster this behavior.  Books are selected for this purpose.  Some, like my American Indian class teacher, threatened bad grades to students who disagreed with her viewpoints.

[asexual trans victimologist]

Actually, our history books in high school had glowing profiles of Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, while taking the time to dispute Reagan's accomplishments.  Also, we were taught how the Indian tribes practiced a primitive form of socialism - when in actuality it was a couple tribes and not all of them.

Oh, well, that isn't what I meant. What were you taught about the settling, Thanksgiving, the Revolution, the expansion, the transition to being an imperial power?

The best teachers I have had were actually the ones teaching practical, useful topics - home ec, financial management (for the masters), human resources management, local govt admin, etc.  If you're implying that I got a slate of liberal teachers throughout my life simply as a coincidence, I would disagree.

It might be a function of your local school system. I also have to ask if you're perceiving them as liberal relative to yourself or relative to some more objective standard (if such a thing is possible). I perceive a lot of people and things as rightist relative to myself that are probably not absolutely so.

There are several things that occur both intentionally and unintentionally in college that mold students into leftists.  

I'm not going to dispute this in the case of many colleges, but it does depend on where you go.

First, groupthink and peer pressure.  One person has a cause and proseletyzes other students about it getting people to shake their heads in agreement (metaphorically) and those students join the cause becoming zealots themselves.

This happens everywhere, though.

Professors can also lead students to come to a certain conclusion and reward (through a praising complement).  As other students see this, they also crave being intellectually valued by their instructor.  

There are all sorts even among professors. Good professors either don't do this or take time to reward intellectually stimulating dissent as well.

Second, the immorality and sensuality that comes as part of the college experience.  The constant partying and pressure to identify yourself to the world is encouraged.  Who wants to be just one of 60,000 (or whatever the campus size is)?

I won't dispute this either, though it's easier than you seem to think to avoid that sort of environment if one is willing to actually politely assert oneself. I know I've been successful in doing so.

So, you have your gender groups and your sexuality groups and your race groups out and about encouraging people to explore themselves in a sensual or narcissistic manner.  

I will dispute that that's what such groups, with the exception of some of the dodgier third-wave feminist groups, are there to do.

Third, the professors themselves are liberal and want to get people to vote democrat.  And its that simple.  Curriculum is created in order to foster this behavior.  Books are selected for this purpose.  Some, like my American Indian class teacher, threatened bad grades to students who disagreed with her viewpoints.

Voting democrat is to be expected in this country since voting is by definition a democratic act (even if only superficially). If you mean voting Democratic, it may be instructive to look at the education system and the function it serves in society and try to divine why it might be best-served by adhering to and supporting soft leftism as opposed to those parts of the political spectrum that actively want to dismantle it. I'd also like to know what sort of curriculum and books you'd like to see that would be so different.

[So rightwing that I broke the Political Compass!]

It's in the textbooks that are selected for one.  The textbooks all mention climate change as a fact and something to consider for the future.

And textbooks in Economics courses all mention communism as a flawed economic theory that should be disregarded. Textbooks regarding medicine all mention vaccines as successful and that everyone should be inoculated. And university courses universally disregard the widely held belief that a Jewish cabal is running everything.

Facts are facts. It doesn't qualify as "bias" for universities to disregard conspiracy theories.

When I was in biology, our professor began to talk about evolution.  He then began to show us what he called "proof" over and over and over.  He would show us something and then say.  "Still not convinced" and then he would show us another example.

I suppose you think that universities should have a substantial number of faculty favouring the Hindu conception of reincarnation, or the pagan conception that Earth is carried on the back of giant turtle?

Oh wait I forgot, it's only bias when Christian fundamentalism is absent from University. It doesn't constitute bias for Hindu or Pagan fundamentalism to be disregarded.

[IDS Speaker Ben Kenobi]

Is it any surprise conservatism and religion are so linked together?

Because Republicans care about something outside of themselves?

[a Person]

Is it any surprise conservatism and religion are so linked together?

Because Republicans care about something outside of themselves?

Religion and caring about something outside of oneself are entirely independent traits.

[nhmagic]

Actually, our history books in high school had glowing profiles of Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, while taking the time to dispute Reagan's accomplishments.  Also, we were taught how the Indian tribes practiced a primitive form of socialism - when in actuality it was a couple tribes and not all of them.

Oh, well, that isn't what I meant. What were you taught about the settling, Thanksgiving, the Revolution, the expansion, the transition to being an imperial power?

The best teachers I have had were actually the ones teaching practical, useful topics - home ec, financial management (for the masters), human resources management, local govt admin, etc.  If you're implying that I got a slate of liberal teachers throughout my life simply as a coincidence, I would disagree.

It might be a function of your local school system. I also have to ask if you're perceiving them as liberal relative to yourself or relative to some more objective standard (if such a thing is possible). I perceive a lot of people and things as rightist relative to myself that are probably not absolutely so.

There are several things that occur both intentionally and unintentionally in college that mold students into leftists.  

I'm not going to dispute this in the case of many colleges, but it does depend on where you go.

First, groupthink and peer pressure.  One person has a cause and proseletyzes other students about it getting people to shake their heads in agreement (metaphorically) and those students join the cause becoming zealots themselves.

This happens everywhere, though.

Professors can also lead students to come to a certain conclusion and reward (through a praising complement).  As other students see this, they also crave being intellectually valued by their instructor.  

There are all sorts even among professors. Good professors either don't do this or take time to reward intellectually stimulating dissent as well.

Second, the immorality and sensuality that comes as part of the college experience.  The constant partying and pressure to identify yourself to the world is encouraged.  Who wants to be just one of 60,000 (or whatever the campus size is)?

I won't dispute this either, though it's easier than you seem to think to avoid that sort of environment if one is willing to actually politely assert oneself. I know I've been successful in doing so.

So, you have your gender groups and your sexuality groups and your race groups out and about encouraging people to explore themselves in a sensual or narcissistic manner.  

I will dispute that that's what such groups, with the exception of some of the dodgier third-wave feminist groups, are there to do.

Third, the professors themselves are liberal and want to get people to vote democrat.  And its that simple.  Curriculum is created in order to foster this behavior.  Books are selected for this purpose.  Some, like my American Indian class teacher, threatened bad grades to students who disagreed with her viewpoints.

Voting democrat is to be expected in this country since voting is by definition a democratic act (even if only superficially). If you mean voting Democratic, it may be instructive to look at the education system and the function it serves in society and try to divine why it might be best-served by adhering to and supporting soft leftism as opposed to those parts of the political spectrum that actively want to dismantle it. I'd also like to know what sort of curriculum and books you'd like to see that would be so different.

The first three (settling, Thanksgiving and Revolution) were apolitical.  The expansion and transition to an imperial power was portrayed in a negative light.

I have been in multiple school systems and home schooled for 1 year (2nd grade).  Indiana, Arizona - went to ASU and to UNH.  Regardless of how I perceive my teachers - education should be apolitical or give arguments for both sides of a political issue.

Groupthink and peer pressure are magnified in college beyond any other place or institution.  The majority of professors are liberal and rarely give credit to intellectual dissent.  In fact, they usually grade those individuals worse - unless, a conservative has so "nuanced" their views as to make them acceptable.

I also have been able to assert myself; however, let's be honest, most people are lemmings and don't do that.  Watch those Penn and Teller videos and how easily they build a group of environmentalists to ban water.

When I wrote the words "vote democrat", I used conservative slang that means voting for the democratic party.  As far as curriculum, I'd like to see a much greater focus on math and education that makes individuals successful as human beings.  Life skills and health should get much greater emphasis.  Arts and music programs should be scuttled - we have the internet and college for individuals to learn that at their own cost.  I'd like to see history taught with competing perspectives and absolutely no hint to how teachers feel about either perspective.  I'd like diversity and identity training to be eliminated - actually watch this video (i hate the title though - its more teachers brainwashing children): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZIwZ2cljq4

[asexual trans victimologist]

The first three (settling, Thanksgiving and Revolution) were apolitical.  The expansion and transition to an imperial power was portrayed in a negative light.

It's possible that what you perceive as apolitical attitudes towards the early period are in fact intensely political. I know that was the case for me. Now I'm reasonably sure it's impossible to not be political somehow or other about those subjects.

As far as curriculum, I'd like to see a much greater focus on math and education that makes individuals successful as human beings.  Life skills and health should get much greater emphasis.  Arts and music programs should be scuttled - we have the internet and college for individuals to learn that at their own cost.

Ah, yes, the 'aww shucks, learning's for gettin' jobs!' view of pedagogy. I'm sorry, but it's going to be hard for me to take this conversation seriously from now on.

I'd like to see history taught with competing perspectives and absolutely no hint to how teachers feel about either perspective.  I'd like diversity and identity training to be eliminated - actually watch this video (i hate the title though - its more teachers brainwashing children): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZIwZ2cljq4

I find the video completely unobjectionable. Eliminated to be replaced with what?

[realisticidealist]

College classes don't make people liberal, the rather libertine social environment does.

[Vermin Supreme]

Reading the above post reminds how f[Inks]ed up this country is; that 'belief' in climate change and evolution are considered 'liberal' opinions.

[asexual trans victimologist]

College classes don't make people liberal, the rather libertine social environment does.

Indeed; most of the politicized classes I've had have been highly critical of 'liberalism' as a political project and sociopolitical concept.

[nhmagic]

The first three (settling, Thanksgiving and Revolution) were apolitical.  The expansion and transition to an imperial power was portrayed in a negative light.

It's possible that what you perceive as apolitical attitudes towards the early period are in fact intensely political. I know that was the case for me. Now I'm reasonably sure it's impossible to not be political somehow or other about those subjects.

As far as curriculum, I'd like to see a much greater focus on math and education that makes individuals successful as human beings.  Life skills and health should get much greater emphasis.  Arts and music programs should be scuttled - we have the internet and college for individuals to learn that at their own cost.

Ah, yes, the 'aww shucks, learning's for gettin' jobs!' view of pedagogy. I'm sorry, but it's going to be hard for me to take this conversation seriously from now on.

I'd like to see history taught with competing perspectives and absolutely no hint to how teachers feel about either perspective.  I'd like diversity and identity training to be eliminated - actually watch this video (i hate the title though - its more teachers brainwashing children): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZIwZ2cljq4

I find the video completely unobjectionable. Eliminated to be replaced with what?

Well, that period is probably political to you now with the tea party and all, but I highly doubt you found that period to be very political at all as a student.  If you found it political, then its likely that you disliked the way our country was founded, disliked what it stands for and wanted it to be changed.

First, I didn't say its just for getting a job, but I do think lower education is meant for an individual to have success in life - it is not for government fetishes of what an education should be.  Higher education, however, can offer what it wants.  Second, your smug comment is a typical response of an elite, holier than though, narcissistic leftist.

On the video - I find it amazing that you find it unobjectionable.  It is an absolute demonstration of what we've been talking about in the thread.  The teachers and admin sit around in a room and plot this.  The kids are six years old and if that's what you believe a quality education is, then you are sadly mistaken.

[Sibboleth]

Yeah, nhazmagick is right you know. The entire point of teaching undergraduates is to corrupt them into voting for the Left, however defined. There is no other reason. It's also absolutely and utterly successful over the longterm.

[asexual trans victimologist]

The first three (settling, Thanksgiving and Revolution) were apolitical.  The expansion and transition to an imperial power was portrayed in a negative light.

It's possible that what you perceive as apolitical attitudes towards the early period are in fact intensely political. I know that was the case for me. Now I'm reasonably sure it's impossible to not be political somehow or other about those subjects.

As far as curriculum, I'd like to see a much greater focus on math and education that makes individuals successful as human beings.  Life skills and health should get much greater emphasis.  Arts and music programs should be scuttled - we have the internet and college for individuals to learn that at their own cost.

Ah, yes, the 'aww shucks, learning's for gettin' jobs!' view of pedagogy. I'm sorry, but it's going to be hard for me to take this conversation seriously from now on.

I'd like to see history taught with competing perspectives and absolutely no hint to how teachers feel about either perspective.  I'd like diversity and identity training to be eliminated - actually watch this video (i hate the title though - its more teachers brainwashing children): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZIwZ2cljq4

I find the video completely unobjectionable. Eliminated to be replaced with what?

Well, that period is probably political to you now with the tea party and all, but I highly doubt you found that period to be very political at all as a student.  If you found it political, then its likely that you disliked the way our country was founded, disliked what it stands for and wanted it to be changed.

Children don't find much of anything political, because they are children. That doesn't mean it's not. By the time I was in middle school I was definitely conscious of the fact that I was being taught a national myth--granted, one of the better ones out there.

First, I didn't say its just for getting a job, but I do think lower education is meant for an individual to have success in life - it is not for government fetishes of what an education should be.  Higher education, however, can offer what it wants.  Second, your smug comment is a typical response of an elite, holier than though, narcissistic leftist.

As your attitude is typical of ignorant, stick-in-the-mud, internalized modernist-materialist reactionary politics. Success in life by definition includes things like art and music. A life without these things is no sort of way of being. I'm also really not sure how anything that I said indicates narcissism even within the internal logic of ignorant, stick-in-the-mud, internalized modernist-materialized reactionary politics, but whatever.

On the video - I find it amazing that you find it unobjectionable.  It is an absolute demonstration of what we've been talking about in the thread.  The teachers and admin sit around in a room and plot this.  The kids are six years old and if that's what you believe a quality education is, then you are sadly mistaken.

Six is admittedly a bit young. I would start explaining this sort of thing, preferably without involving sex and with a primary focus on the affective and performative aspects, around eight or nine in ideal circumstances. I find it not worth getting upset about because considering the extent to which children's perceptions are abused by the expected mockery of pageantry in the old orrery, it's understandable that somewhat heavy-handed crisis measures should be introduced. More objectionable than any questions of proper age targeting, however, are the comments on the video, which are by and large vile.

[shua]

If everybody had a college degree, are we going to have college graduates who are janitors? College graduates working the front-lines at Target? We already have quite a few who work at Starbucks...

Perhaps we could get a workforce where being a janitor was a job rather than a career?  While it came out sounding very silly, Gingrich's proposal to have kids doing the bulk of the janitorial work at their schools made some sense because you don't need even a kindergarten diploma to do most janitorial tasks.

I dunno - I think at the very least a janitor should be able to tell that "Ammonia" isn't spelled the same as "Bleach."

[True Federalist]

If everybody had a college degree, are we going to have college graduates who are janitors? College graduates working the front-lines at Target? We already have quite a few who work at Starbucks...

Perhaps we could get a workforce where being a janitor was a job rather than a career?  While it came out sounding very silly, Gingrich's proposal to have kids doing the bulk of the janitorial work at their schools made some sense because you don't need even a kindergarten diploma to do most janitorial tasks.

I dunno - I think at the very least a janitor should be able to tell that "Ammonia" isn't spelled the same as "Bleach."

That's why I said most tasks, not all.   It isn't as if janitors need to have an Associate's degree in Sanitation Science (A.S.S.) that includes courses in how the chemistry of various cleaning supplies makes them best suited for various types of grime.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Santorum said he knows the real reason Obama wants more Americans on college campuses.

"That's why he wants you to go to college. He wants to remake you in his image," Santorum said to more applause. "I want to create jobs so people can remake their children into their image, not his."

hopefully, this troll will make himself useful tomorrow in MI so that we can flush him and the rest of the current GOP field down the toliet.

[Torie]

Yeah, nhazmagick is right you know. The entire point of teaching undergraduates is to corrupt them into voting for the Left, however defined. There is no other reason. It's also absolutely and utterly successful over the longterm.

That Al, is five death points for excessive hyperbole. And you should get another 3 points for having too much fun.